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The Sanitation Of Islam

News/Current Events Front Page Editorial Keywords: ISLAM, WHITEWASH, SANITIZING, HYPOCRACY
Source: Email
Published: September 25, 2001 Author: Howard Galganov
Posted on 09/28/2001 00:50:56 PDT by NorthernRight

The Sanitation Of Islam
Where Was The "Normal" Voice Of Islam?

September 25, 2001

By Howard Galganov

The developing military coalition does not want to make the impending war, a war between the East and the West, and between Islam and Judeo-Christianity. It does not want to polarize the enemy into forming a billion person coalition of its own. But it’s too late; Pandora’s box has been opened. The world of fundamentalist Islam has declared war on everything that is represented by the West — including Western based religions and our modern culture.

Since the terrorist attack, we have all been inundated with the "sanitation of Islam" from every corner of the world. We have seen and heard no shortage of world Islamic leaders claim that their’s is a religion of great tolerance, peace and love. And they are deeply wounded by the murder and destruction. But if their hearts are all so broken, and if Islam is against killing and violence, then where have their voices been for the past 30 years and more?

This past Sunday, September 23, 2001, the religions of the world came together at Yankee Stadium for a gigantic prayer and memorial service. It was one of the most touching events I have ever witnessed. Religious, political and entertainment notables spoke, prayed and performed. It truly represented the best in mankind. But something was missing — the truth.

I heard a heartwarming sermon from the Moslems, and I will take it at the religious leader’s word, that what he had to say was what he believed about harmony, respect and love for all, even those of different faiths. So, I have to ask myself: How come these peace loving people have never before come forward to condemn murder and violence through racism, sexism and religious nationalism carried out in the name of Islam?

I have recently heard no shortage of Moslems who have compared the demonization of Islam to the fact that no one condemned Timothy McVey’s outrage in Oklahoma as a Christian act of terrorism, and the slaughter of Moslems at prayer at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, as an act of Jewish terrorism?

They, within the Moslem world, who compare the so-called double standard are wrong. American Christian fundamentalists with a bent towards violence are constantly demonized in the US press, on radio, on television and in Hollywood productions. And as for Baruch Goldstein at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, Israel, and outraged Jews all over the world could not have been more saddened and outraged by his attack against humanity. And the Jewish anger against Goldstein was not kept a secret. He, and what he did was publicly condemned by the entire Jewish world. Without equivocation.

But where have all of these "saddened" Moslems been hiding during the non stop terror attacks that has killed many hundreds of innocent people in Israel? I don’t recall ever hearing their outcry against this perversion of Islam that was responsible for the slaughter of Jewish children in schools, Israeli athletes at the Olympics, Jews and others at airports, on busses, in markets, at discotheques, pizza parlors and around the world in countries that have nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism and Israel; such as the bombing of a Jewish owned delicatessen in Paris, and at the Jewish community center in Argentina.

Where was even the slightest criticism from the Arab and Moslem community at the visual and public outburst of joy and celebration in the streets of the West Bank, Lebanon and other Middle Eastern countries, while grieving Jews collected the human body parts of those blown apart by Islamic Arab fundamentalist suicide bombers? Instead of condemnation, the Arabic Moslem children were given candy, in order to enjoy the sweetness of the murder carried out in the name of Allah. Do you remember ever hearing any condemnation from anyone in the Arab and Moslem world at this vulgar spectacle?

I guess by now, it was not unusual for Arab Moslems to be seen dancing in the streets in celebration of the murder of Jews. But it's an entirely different thing when these same Arab Moslems danced in the streets at the murder of people in New York City, Washington DC and on those four crashed passenger planes.

How can a religion that forbids women from enjoying life as equal human beings, be considered to be as loving as the current spokes-people for Islam claim? How can a religion that orders women to be stoned to death for infidelity, or even less; and for robbers of a loaf of bread to have a limb amputated as retribution in the name of justice, claim to be anything but barbaric?

Even the word Jihad all of a sudden no longer means holy war — at least to the Moslem spin doctors. But it’s quite remarkable how every nation in Islam, especially the countries of the Middle East have shouted Jihad against the Jews and the imperialist Americans for as long as I can remember. Even Yasser Arafat, up until September 11, 2001, spoke of Jihad. What happened?

And then there is the cry from the Arab world, that they should not be singled out for this extreme act of terrorism. They don’t want to be profiled at airports and at other areas where large gatherings occur.

Who was on those airplanes that changed the world, and caused so much grief? Were they not Arab Moslems? Who have been highjacking airplanes, killing innocent people and blowing up buildings since the 60's? Who operates terrorist training camps in the Middle East, North Africa and Centra Asia?

Forgive me for telling it like it is. But the answer to all of the above is crystal clear. Now, let me get back to the Arabs who don’t want to be profiled or treated differently because of recent events. Where has their voice been in condemnation of those Arabs, whom for so long terrorized the world? Where has the Moslem voice been hiding, while people have routinely been massacred in the name of Allah and the Koran?

The Arabs and the Moslems who are now so vocal, were silent until today, only because it didn’t matter when the venom of their culture and religious hatred restricted their actions to the murder and terror, primarily of Jews in the Middle East. It didn’t touch them then. But now it does. So, all of a sudden, there is outrage and condemnation for terrorism from the once silent and invisible Arab and Moslem communities. But it is not moral outrage that has forced the Arab and Moslem communities to explain and apologize for what has just happened — it is fear of retribution.

I have quite a few Arab friends and associates who I care a great deal about. And my heart does break for them, because they are no more guilty of this obscenity than I am. And they should neither be profiled nor feared. Nothing they could have said or done would have changed anything. But that is not true of their leadership.

The leaders of their communities could have said plenty before this past horror. Yet, instead of publicly standing up for decency, they chose silence. And now, there is a price to pay. We can only hope, that from this outrage and impending war, the Arab and Moslem world will finally get the message; that what is done in their name, religion and culture will affect them with grave consequences.

I will add to what President George W Bush had to say about nations that are not with the United States in this epic battle against terrorism. If the "normal" Arab and Moslem world will not condemn those within their own culture and community, who carry on acts of racial violence and hatred towards all people; including Jews and Israelis, then we must assume that they are with the perpetrators.

After September 11, 2001, there is no longer any room for silence or fence sitting.

Howard Galganov is a Canadian talk-radio host, writer and political activist. You can email Howard at:
howard@galganov.com

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What kind of twisted religion promises its "holy warriors" an eternity of orgies with 72 virgins in return for committing mass murder in the name of its god?

bttt

bttt

FYI

nailed it ...

What kind of twisted religion promises its "holy warriors" an eternity of orgies with 72 virgins in return for committing mass murder in the name of its god?

None that I know of, and I've been studying religion for over thirty years. It's certainly not any teaching of Islam, and all the hooting and shouting of the Anti-Islam Brigades will never make it so. It's another of the stock slanders.

For some reason I thought you realized that.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

I remember back in 1979-80, after the Iranian Islamic Revolution -- talk about how the Muslim "good book" prescribed in some detail how and under what circumstances, a man would have sex with a chicken. Anyone else hear anything about this? Just wondering.

I recall something vaguely similar, and as much as I despised Khomeini for the utter outlawry and apostasy of violating the sanctity of an embassy, I thought it a rather pathetic attack on him. I was even more amazed that some people are so utterly ignorant of Islam that they thought there could be substance to it.

It's a little like a long, expensive government-funded project to translate into human language a writing from aliens entitled "How to Serve Man" -- obviously some aliens who have us humans in the proper perspective -- only to discover that it's a recipe book. Some kind of science fantasy mentality is required to believe what we've been reading about a 1400-year-old religion to which one fifth of the human race is devoted.

But then, who ever went broke from over-estimating the gullibility of the American people?

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

Maybe if you keep saying it enough, history will revise itself, the koran will magically change what it says, and islam will cease to be linked to murder and mayhem. Try saying louder and see if it makes a difference. Maybe a bigger font would help. Or, maybe if you killed everyone who disagrees with you, then it would be true.

Sorry--you can't fool us anymore.

You can tell us the lies over, and over. They have been exposed. You are now nothing more than a "spin doctor."

The ugly truth has been revealed about Islam, and none of your rhetoric, denials, obsfucations, or side-steps will change that.

Funny how many Mohammedans in America are for the creation of an Islamic state here in America.

Do you deny that you would like to see Islam the official religion of the USA and the world?

Sanitizing is right! While I understand why they're doing it, I consider it to be a HUGE mistake. They're playing PC games which never pan out in the long run. The older I get, the more I see the need to look past your nose to the implications of your action twenty years down the road. Just about every problem we have today is a result of poor judgements of 20 years ago. The Koran specifically calls for the annihilation of Christian and Jews-period.

Your reply to my question about Islam and sex with chickens..

I recall something vaguely similar, and as much as I despised Khomeini for the utter outlawry and apostasy of violating the sanctity of an embassy, I thought it a rather pathetic attack on him. I was even more amazed that some people are so utterly ignorant of Islam that they thought there could be substance to it.

So go on...what did you recall that was "vaguely similar?" There must be some basis. You are the religious scholar. Show me the basis, or the absence thereof. I want to know about EVERY comment in the Qur'an (and related texts) about bestiality.

Did Khomeini write about this subject, or did he not? If he DID, it wouldn't be a pathetic attack on him, now would it? Do you really know the answer, or are you simply hell bent on repelling every criticism of the actual precepts of this religion?

By CANDICE HUGHES
Associated Press Writer

September 26, 2001, 5:06 PM EDT

ROME -- Breaking ranks with allies reaching out to the Muslim world, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday said Western civilization is superior to Islam. He also said he hopes the West conquers Islamic civilization...

He told a news conference, "We must be aware of the superiority of our civilization, a system that has guaranteed well-being, respect for human rights and -- in contrast with Islamic countries _ respect for religious and political rights, a system that has as its values understandings of diversity and tolerance."

He also claimed Western civilization is superior because it "has at its core, as its greatest value, freedom, which is not the heritage of Islamic culture."

Berlusconi went on to say that he trusts "the West will continue to conquer peoples, like it conquered Communism," even if it means a confrontation with "another civilization, the Islamic one, stuck where it was 1,400 years ago."

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!!!

The NY Post recently had a cartoon showing an American negotiating with the Taliban, and striking fear into them by threatening to educate their women.

Even the LibFems I know are disgusted by the Taliban's treatment of women, and would certainly feel no remorse at the regime's destruction.

Gotta' love those Italians!

We've got good governments in Italy and in Austria. When the other Europeans finally wake up to the Mohammedan trash in their midst, maybe they will elect good governments as well.

They say we will either be converted or be put to the sword. I've heard enough! It's time to rock!

And as for Baruch Goldstein at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, Israel, and outraged Jews all over the world could not have been more saddened and outraged by his attack against humanity.

Not too outraged. Do a search on Baruch Goldstein and you will turn up dozens of websites that hail him as a hero and a rightous holy person for his act of slaughtering Muslims at prayer.

How can a religion that forbids women from enjoying life as equal human beings, be considered to be as loving...

You haven't talked to the Baptists recently, have you? As far as they are conerned women are equal...except if they want to be Pastors or run the household or don't want to submit to their husbands.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement...

Not very big on the Geneva Convention, are they?

So go on...what did you recall that was "vaguely similar?" There must be some basis. You are the religious scholar. Show me the basis, or the absence thereof. I want to know about EVERY comment in the Qur'an (and related texts) about bestiality.

In 1979, the day after Khomeini took the hostages, I was on the streets with flyers shouting "Khomeini is the Antichrist" in 160-point Gothic bold, with a complete Biblical analysis. I had then been a muslim Imam for eight years. A few days later, standing with a group of Christian ministers before television cameras, I said that the proper thing for the U.S. to do would be to turn Qum (Khomeini's city) into a sea of glass with a thermonuclear weapon. For some wierd reason the Christian ministers were shocked and uncomfortable with this perfectly reasonable solution to the problems that Khomeini presented then and still presents today.

But there is nothing (I can't believe it's necessary to spell this out) remotely resembling any such "chicken" thing in the Qur'an. Duh.

Did Khomeini write about this subject, or did he not? If he DID, it wouldn't be a pathetic attack on him, now would it?

No, I don't recall anything so crazy. There was something attributed to him that was equally crazy, but I don't recall what it was. It could have been that sex with a three-year-old girl did not deprive her of virginity, but that is a Talmudic prescript (I believe to protect the future marriage prospects of a victim, while her rapist was undoubtedly stoned), and I'm not sure that was what was attributed to Khomeini -- it could have been. I just don't recall. I simply wanted him taken down, he was an abomination -- but he was obviously useful to someone's agenda about the same way the false prophet Elijah Muhammad was useful. They were both suitably twisted distortions of Islam that they made good television "education" in America.

I have the writings of 'Ali Shari'ati, the ideologist of the Persian revolution, which are basically Marxist-Leninist dialectical materialism wrapped up in religious terminology. But from Khomeini himself there were attributions elsewhere, some of which made a macabre kind of sense in the context of Shi'ah doctrine, but some of which were really so far out in left field that they weren't remotely credible.

Do you really know the answer, or are you simply hell bent on repelling every criticism of the actual precepts of this religion?

So far I've seen very little "criticism of the actual precepts of" Islam. I've seen straw men by the dozens, which is useless. That's why I seldom bother to address them, there's no point because when Americans encounter Islam the tactic completely backfires -- the reality is so far from the straw men that it illuminates the Anti-Islam Brigades and their histories.

The religious community persisted for thirty years after the death of Muhammad, and then fragmented -- which is by definition the collapse of the Ummah. It then fell up for three hundred years, spreading from Gibraltar to China and ushering in the modern scientific age -- with astral navigation, federalism, pharmacology, universal suffrage, the complete elimination of poverty and the virtual elimination of crime, universal free education to all levels for all people, and a list of other things we still enjoy today -- all fruits of what we learn in American public schools was "The Dark Ages" (of Europe) with no other history going on.

Meanwhile, the millennial muslim world has long since passed into terminal decay through internal corruption and external conquest. What the followers of the Arabs see, when they look at a "restoration" of Islam, is the decayed empire, the tyranny and oppression that developed in and followed three hundred years of cataclysmic expansion of empire. And the jurisprudence of the millennial muslim world reflects its origins -- not in the initial revelatory period of half a century, but in the political machinations of empire two hundred years later.

There is much to criticize. There are serious problems with what we, in America, have been sent -- in a proliferation of popular English-language literature and petroleum grants -- from the followers of the Arabs.

Every party of contention is represented in would-be "teachers" who come from across the waters. Saudi Arabia's radical Wahhabi "Salafiyya" movement -- a well-funded attempt to colonize American Islam with a slick-cover monthly magazine and all the trimmings of modernity -- recruits from the streets of America's ghettos, flies the recruits to Saudi Arabia for a short crash course in priestly Arabic terminology, and then returns them to pose as "leaders" and mislead gullible Americans. The Hizb-ut-Tahrir, out of London and world-wide, is much more radical and extreme than the Taliban or any of bin Laden's troops, but avoids such obvious traps as suicide bombings and hijacking and murder -- as far as any police have managed to detect -- and they're in America, too. There are more on the list.

These are all distortions, and thank God they're marginalized and tiny minorities in the muslim world and in America. But the fundamental errors that produced them are still present in the Abbasid jurisprudence that forms the basis of government in all those tyrannical religious dictatorships we love to hate. There are serious errors in what we, in this century, on this continent, have "received" from the terminally collapsed millennial muslim world. They are very real and should be addressed, and they are being addressed by indigenous American muslims as we scrape off the imperial veneer and glosses that the Arabs, a thousand years ago, wrote into their history and civilization as "religion." But a thousand years of momentum and religious institution is something that the millennial muslim world is not likely to overcome -- America is the only place on the planet where it can happen.

This claptrap nonsense of straw men that we see in a sudden flood that erupted on September 11 -- it's worthless as information, it has no bearing on finding and eliminating those behind the terror war, and it just sets us up for the next attack which won't come from muslims either.

The aim of the terrorists was to create a backlash against Islam in general and Islam in America in particular, to provoke the precise military adventure that we almost fell into and still might, seriously damage the economy through the disruption of air travel that has become so integral to our business functioning, and mislead us into thinking that some "quick fix" is possible before the next attack again saps our national spirit and stamina.

This wasn't bin Laden's ragtag bunch of nut cases. This was someone scraping up twenty people so far gone mentally that they never could have put it together with such a trail of disinformation behind them. And it wasn't some distortion from the muslim world, either, except as a pawn in someone else's game.

We have exported the image of the libertine greedy and stupid American. That's our prime time television programming they're watching to find out who we "are" in America. We have exported our helicopter gunships and rubber bullets and bulldozers to where others make us look like the world's biggest bastard and bully. And in the process we've allowed the formation of a pool of absolute maniacs, people with no hope, no prospects, no reason to live other than for revenge against the wrong people -- us. But it's not them, it's those who engineered this situation, patiently over the space of decades and generations, to bring us down -- because we are the people on the planet who will not buy into what they have planned -- to tyrannize the rest of the world with false religion giving rise to a new "divine right" of the governments they plan.

Make no mistake, this is a war to the death. America's enemies are determined to destroy us, not just coerce us to change some policies here and there. And it's the people of America -- you and me -- who have to do it, this isn't something we can just turn over to "Let George do it" like everything else we take for granted like roads and bridges and the post office. We have to properly identify the enemy and avoid shooting ourselves in the foot.

I see three. Three major enemies, countries aimed at our throats and our minds, and plans that require our destruction. bin Laden is merely a pawn, a throw-away, a useful tool to create diversions and frustrations. Sure, eliminate him -- it won't solve the problem, it won't stop the attack, it won't prevent a thing. Our enemies are allied with each other in a marriage made in hell, and they're coming. And Islam isn't one of them: that's what they're aiming at first.

Get a clue. Our lives depend on it.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

Where's an El Cid when ya really really need one?

Ann Coulter: FUTURE WIDOWS OF AMERICA: WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN

"... The New York Times can rest assured that every last American has now heard the news that not all Muslims are terrorists. That's not the point. Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims -- at least all terrorists capable of assembling a murderous plot against America that leaves 7,000 people dead in under two hours.

How are we to distinguish the peaceful Muslims from the fanatical, homicidal Muslims about to murder thousands of our fellow citizens? Are the good Muslims the ones who live quiet lives, pray a lot and obey the law? So did the architects of Bloody Tuesday's mass murder. Are the peaceful Muslims the ones who loudly proclaim their hatred of Osama Bin Laden? Mohammed Atta did that, too...."

Not very big on the Geneva Convention, are they?

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them.
"They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people.
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." - Numbers 31: 15-18

Ditto.

It truly represented the best in mankind. But something was missing — the truth.

Good statement. We are hearing so many wonderful words right now from a lot of areas but they are just words. Truth is missing. Their beliefs are not matching up with their words.

"Ditto."

You're about 3,000 years behind the curve in criticizing Jews for their treatment of heathens. On the other hand, given what the Koran teaches and the fact that its adherents still follow its teachings to the letter today, perhaps you might wish to reconsider your support of Islam.

No, I think I'll keep defending it against people trying to condemn an entire religion for the actions of a few.

"No, I think I'll keep defending it against people trying to condemn an entire religion for the actions of a few."

Given that same logic, I suppose we shouldn't judge Marxism too harshly based on the actions of a few.

If moderate Islam is so widespread, why is it so weak and cowed?

either...

1) It is too weak to be relevant, and will soon be overwhelmed by the orthodox (radicals)

OR

2) The moderates are quietly in sympathy with the radicals

Yup. Time to deal with reality, not things as we wish they were.

actions of a few

Supported by many!

I note with dismay the absence of Fatwah's against alll who participate in Al Queda. This alone is quite damning evidence against many of the Islamic clerics who spout the line about Islam not being an enemy of the USA.

those Muslims who do not stand up for the USA will have stated they stand against the USA in time of war.

Enemies are to be destroyed utterly.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

Not too outraged. Do a search on Baruch Goldstein and you will turn up dozens of websites that hail him as a hero and a rightous holy person for his act of slaughtering Muslims at prayer.

Yes, and these websites are all either Kahanist, or JDL related. Hardly part of the mainstream Jewish establishment. Kahanists are considered to be extremists and are banned in Israel. They are considered a suspect organization in America, and under constant surveillance, and it's members investigated.

You haven't talked to the Baptists recently, have you? As far as they are conerned women are equal...except if they want to be Pastors or run the household or don't want to submit to their husbands.

My! Such hardships! But Baptists don't mistreat, beat, maim or kill their women as part of the normal process of their faith.

People must realize that LYING for a purpose is widely accepted in the Arab world. It is nothing to an Arab (Arafat is the best exapmle) to lie in English to non-Arabs and then say something entirely different to each other in Arabic if they think no Westerner is listening.

A documented example of this occured at the mosque in Toledo, Ohio. Reporters were told by the Muslim spokespeople that they were a peace-loving people wishing no harm to anyone. However, one of the reporters decided to sit in at the Friday service at the Toledo mosque. What he heard was hair-raising and full of hatred, mainly toward Jews. The Imam gave the most anti-Semitic tirad the reporter had ever heard. This has been more fully described previously here on FR.

Your intriguing and considered analysis begs an obvious question, then.

I see three. Three major enemies, countries aimed at our throats and our minds, and plans that require our destruction.

So who are these three enemies?   Just trying to get that clue.

I stood in front of a crowd of dancing people singing a song if you see a British soldier die clap your hands.

While behind me a clean up crew were pulling out the bodies of some young dead British service men.

Or the singing of

While Irish eyes are smiling
British soldiers are dying

Are these people any different to those Palestine who whooped and cheered over every attack against Israel.

The Israeli Palestinian conflict has been going on know for over 50 years with no end in site, whole generations have been raised into what amounts to a war zone, like those Irish kids who used to stone me when out on patrol they no nothing else.

Yes many Muslims kept quite at the attacks against Israel carried out by the Palestine, but many kept quite when Israel attacked Palestine, not much support there either.

I heard tell that members of NORIAD used to go round bars in New York, Boston and in some Canadian cities collecting funds for the IRA, while we were your allies, where was the condemnation from America.

re : How are we to distinguish the peaceful Muslims from the fanatical, homicidal Muslims about to murder thousands of our fellow citizens?.

The same we did in North Ireland by use of Intelligence, and in this case it will be easier since the majority of the terrorist organisation is strung out in the Middle East.

I don’t hate the Irish or Americans and Canadians, I have too much experience of the war against Terrorism to try and couch the whole conflict in very simple terms who is on whose side and prove it .

Tony

This writer is on a mission.

Might consider looking at a map and looking at the Muslim countries that are successful, friendly and moderate vs the ones who are in over-population, chaos and poverty.

So when's Howard going to be the object of accusations of hate-mongering by the Arab community in Canada and since he's on the radio a complaint and investigation by that NGO stalinist-like entity the Canadian Broadcast Council or whatever they're calling themselves now?

Well don't you know Tony, I didn't think the Irish problem was as pervasive as Islamicism or Islamic fundamentalism (must be a lot of Irish out there). I guess it's too much to ask Muslims from free countries to actually say anything against their fellow radical Islamics. Instead, it's left to a Christian organization to come out with the statement below made at the Durban Conference. Are you aware THAT NOT ONE ISLAMIC STATE who participated at the Durban conference would get behind the statement below? Silence is golden isn't it?:

CDHR Declaration at Durban

Radical Islamism = Racism = Genocide…

Jihad-Islamism (not Islam) abuses human rights worldwide

Declaration by The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights Affirming the Dangers of Radical Islamism and a Call to Recognize the Historical Oppression of Religious Minorities Subjected to this Racist-like Practice.

We, the members of The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights, representing minority religious and ethnic communities from around the world, call upon the World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, now meeting in Durban, South Africa, to address and condemn the ideology of Radical Islamism — a deviation from Islam — as intolerant, xenophobic, racist, supremacist, discriminatory, anti-democratic, and genocidal.

We also call upon the Conference to alert the international community to the widespread dangers of Radical Islamism's culture of animosity and destruction, and to remember and honor the victims of this oppressive ideology of hate toward religious minorities of all beliefs, races, and nationalities.

Finally, we call upon the Conference to recognize that Radical Islamism is a totalitarian movement aimed at establishing a worldwide Radical Islamist state that would:

• Divide Humanity into two groups: those defined as righteous Muslims or infidels;
• Support religious wars against non-Islamist Muslims and non-Muslim infidels worldwide;
• Establish an Apartheid-like regime similar to those in Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan, to subjugate and control infidels;
• Legitimize and extend human rights abuses — including slavery — on a massive scale;
• Employ a global economic resource (oil) as a weapon against non-Muslim nations in the service of its goals.

We believe that the World Conference must act in a manner consistent with the defense of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and ensure that its summary record reflect that Radical Islamism is recognized by all democratic societies as an evil doctrine that should be confronted at Durban and in all United Nations bodies.

To that end, the Conference should recognize the following irrefutable historical facts and warn against the future threats of Radical Islamism:

(I) Radical Islamism Sanctions War through its Radicalized Version of a World Religion.

(A) Jihad, or Holy War, is a religiously sanctioned call for individual and collective violence made by Radical Islamists against "infidels" worldwide. In the past, the concept of Jihad was responsible for many of the greatest tragedies in human history. For over thirteen centuries, millions of human lives have been sacrificed by Jihad campaigns around the world . Now, inspired and organized by the Supremacist ideology of Radical Islamism, Jihad again threatens millions of individuals across the globe.

(B) Fatah, or military conquest, is the employment of Jihad for imperial expansion and colonization of non-Islamic lands. Radical Islamists believe that Fatah is as legitimate today as when the concept gave rise to a series of invasions of countries outside Islam's original birthplace in the Arabian Peninsula.

Historically, Fatah was employed repeatedly over the centuries and included the unprovoked invasions known as Ghazwas by Arab Muslims beginning in 636 AD/CE. These invasions aimed to capture and dominate the Dar al-Harb and impose the religion, and in many areas the language and culture, of the Arab Muslims on their captive subjects. Radical Islamists today wish to re-institutionalize the Ghazwas, thereby re-connecting themselves to a nostalgic, "heroic" past. If successful, they will have reconstituted the world's longest ongoing campaign of imperialist aggression.

History's Three Regional Jihads:

In the 7th Century following the establishment of a government under the Caliph or supreme Muslim religious leader in the Arabian Peninsula, Arab Muslim armies conquered Syria, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, and imposed their rule over the indigenous Christian Armenians, Arameans, Assyrians, Syriacs, Chaldeans, and Jews. Coptic Christian Egypt, Nubian Northern Sudan, Berber Cyrenaica (Libya) and Numedia (Algeria) also were then conquered followed by Spain, southern France, and Sicily. The Arab Muslim armies also invaded Persia and Central Asia reaching as far as India. In all of these lands, an Islamic state was established against the will of the native populations and imposed by Arab governors under the Caliph.

A second unprovoked Fatah was launched from the 11th to the 17th century when Turkish Muslim warriors stormed and conquered Christian Armenia, Byzantium, Greece, the Balkans, and parts of eastern and central Europe, up to the gates of Vienna. Meanwhile a third unprovoked Fatah caused the subjugation of Hindu and Buddhist India.

The Fatah was a planned and organized movement to subdue cultures, and destroy them as a prelude to replacing them with a new foreign religious culture. Today, Radical Islamists wish to revive the Fatah on a global scale.

(II) The Adepts of Radical Islamism Subscribe to an Anachronistic and Widely Discredited Version of a Universal, Monotheistic Faith, Islam, that is a Source of Inspiration to Hundreds of Millions of Muslims worldwide.

(A) Radical Islamists believe in a 1400 year-old religious concept that divides the world into two zones: Dar al-Islam: the realm of peace and Dar al-harb: the realm of war. The former is a zone that is ruled by Islamic states which are worthy of full peace, while the latter is ruled by infidels who inhabit a zone of war, susceptible to Islamic subjugation. Radical Islamists promote a religious worldwide confrontation between the two zones that grants legitimacy to imperial conquest, colonialism, slavery, ethnic cleansing, suppression of liberties, forced religious conversion, and Jihad or Holy War.

(B) Radical Islamists also believe in the 1400 year-old concept of Ridda which holds that a natural born or converted Muslim may not convert or revert to another religion. Today, in many countries ruled or influenced by the Radical Islamist version of Koranic Law, there exists a religiously sanctioned death penalty for those who may decide to change their religion.

(III) Radical Islamism Imposes an Inferior Status on All Non-Muslims and the Special Subservient Status of Dhimmi for "the People of the Book" - Jews and Christians.

In the 7th century, the Caliph Umar imposed this Dhimmi status on conquered populations under his rule. Christians, Jews, and others were forced to accept Al-Shurut al-Umariya, or Umar's conditions, a system of restrictions designed to shame and despoil non-Muslim subjects. Dhimmi peoples had to relinquish their land, were forced to pay a special "protection" tax (dhimma) or face death, wear distinctive clothing, and were banned from most government positions.

Today, Radical Islamists seek to re-impose this state-sanctioned discrimination, calling it an effort to "protect" minorities. In reality, such measures are always part of an effort to enforce assimilation, conversion, and to annihilate the identity of others. The example of Afganistan, where the Hindu minority is forced to wear distinctive clothing to mark them as infidels, is among the most well known.

In areas throughout the Islamic world, Radical Islamists use repression and violence against infidel minorities. In Egypt, Radical Islamists persecute the Copts; in Sudan, the Radical Islamist regime massacres and enslaves the Dinkas, both Christian and traditionalist; in Lebanon, Radical Islamists terrorize the Christians; in Nigeria, they butchered Biafran Ibos and oppress the Christians. In Iraq and Syria, alleged secular radical regimes that are governed by Arab nationalist ideologies and penetrated by Jihadic norms suppress native Christian cultures. In Iran, they persecute Christians and Bahais; in Kashmir, they wage a terrorist war against the Hindu minority; in the southern Philippines, they terrorize Catholics and kidnap foreigners; in East Timor, they have endorsed the regime's attempts at ethnic cleansing against Christians; in Indonesia, they routinely assault the native Christians, particularly in the Moluccas.

(IV) Radical Islamists Seek to Establish the Supremacy of their Version of Islam Over all Other Faiths: the "Global Jihad."

Guided by a deviated interpretation of Islam, the Radical Islamists believe that they will rule the world because of their conviction in the superiority of their religion. Their propaganda mirrors such beliefs as in the Middle East, where they call for the takeover of secular governments in Muslim countries, the destruction of Israel, and the elimination of Christians in Lebanon and South Sudan. In Africa, they call for the conversion to Islam of Black Africa. In Russia, they call for the violent secession of Chechnya, and Dagestan. In Pakistan, they promote Jihad to sever the multi-ethnic province of Kashmir from India. In China, they call for the creation of an Islamic state in Xinjiang. In South East Asia, they support the elimination of East Timor, the destruction of Christian and Chinese minorities in Indonesia, the establishment of a Radical Islamist state in the South Philippines. In Europe, they encourage Radical Islamist separatism in Bosnia and Kosovo, and now in Macedonia. In America and Europe, they have taken over the leadership of the growing Muslim communities to radicalize them and pave the way for Radical Islamist political action in the service of a global Jihad. In every instance, their message is carefully tuned to promote the legitimization of Jihad movements by the international community. To accelerate that goal the Radical Islamists of today are planning, and implementing a Jihad to re-establish the universal Caliphate.

(V) Radical Islamists Abuse Human Rights in their Home Countries

Racial Islamists reject political pluralism, democracy, and fundamental human freedoms in their home countries and abroad. Wherever possible, they use existing freedoms to reach power and then physically eliminate or subdue their opposition. Radical Islamists prohibit or have eliminated political freedoms in Afganistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan, and plan on eliminating those freedoms enjoyed in other countries as they come to dominate them.

Similarly, Radical Islamists do not tolerate religious freedom, or regimes that permit religious equality. In Saudi Arabia, state law forbids non-Muslims to practice their faith. In Afghanistan, Iran, Sudan, and Egypt, non-Muslims are discriminated against in varying degrees.

Much like Dhimmis, women under Radical Islamist regimes and throughout the Muslim world live as an inferior class of citizens. Such regimes promote gender discrimination against women, theologically, ideologically, socially, politically and economically. From Afghanistan to Morocco, women suffer dearly at different levels and in different contexts. Women, who have unequal legal rights, are abused through systematic social discrimination, psychological oppression. Female genital mutilation (FGM) and honor killings are among the most well-known depravations suffered by women in many countries.

Radical Islamists proclaim the equality of races under Islam, but have established a form of religious racism wherever they expanded. They have developed the concept of the "Umma" - the "religious nation" - from which non-Muslims are excluded as a whole. Hence, religion to Radical Islamists is not just a faith held by some citizens and not others; it is an absolute demarcation, dividing superior from inferior human beings. To Radical Islamists, religion is akin to race in any racist system as it sets up an exclusive, superior category of human beings with rights to dominate the others. Within this system, Arab Radical Islamists advocate an Arab Caliph, the Arabic language as the sacred language, and regard other Muslims, especially those of African origin, as inferior. The Radical Islamists' distaste for Africans is rooted in the Arab Muslim participation in the enslavement of Africans, a practice that dates back to the 7th Century AD/CE. Arab-Islamist raids into Africa since the conquest of Egypt have ravaged Africa, uprooted tens of millions of men, women and children, destroying countless families. It contributed to the European slave trade from Africa to the Americas from the 17th century. The Arab enslavement of Africans over the centuries remains active today in Sudan.

(VI) Radical Islamists Deny Their Crimes Against Humanity

While other cultures, movements and religions have acknowledged and sometimes apologized for past racist practices, the Radical Islamists refuse to admit the historical crimes they, and their predecessors, have perpetrated since the 7th century and refuse to acknowledge that those crimes are still being perpetrated today.

In the areas under their control they write revisionist histories of their actions, denying the identity and history of the nations they have subjugated and burying the evidence of the Jihad that they waged against native peoples. In the West, they fund educational programs aimed at erasing their crimes from history. Radical Islamists are penetrating the public educational systems to impose their view of their victims world with the unwitting assistance of their victims. In this way, they obliterate the violent and racist nature of their predecessors' actions and prepare for their return to absolute power, decreed by their beliefs.

RESOLUTIONS:

For these reasons, the Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights calls upon the World Conference Against Racism to:

1) Request the Organization of the Islamic Conference - acting on behalf of its 57 members - to apologize for past Jihad crimes against humanity, including the brutal invasion and occupation of lands and peoples in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe, and Asia, and the mass enslavement of Africans and others, including Europeans;

2) Condemns all current Jihads, and calls on these Governments to cease violating the rights of ethnic and religious minorities and peoples;

3) Calls on the United Nations to Equate Radical Islamism, Jihad-ism, and Dhimmitude with Racism, Colonialism, and Imperialism;

4) Calls on the United Nations to intervene to protect the rights and lives of religious and ethnic minorities and non-Islamist Muslims in Afganistan, Algeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia Sudan, and Syria;

5) Calls on Islamic scholars and intellectuals to reject the concepts of Fatah, Jihad, and Dhimmitude;

6) Calls on Islamic Governments to stop imposing the Shari'a on non-Muslims and guarantee the rights of all enlightened Muslim humanists and intellectuals.

Submitted by: The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights, an umbrella coalition representing various organizations from the following communities: Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais, Humanist Muslims, Copts, Assyrians, Syriacs, Southern Sudanese, Maronites, Southern Philippinos, West Africans, Ibos, Slavic Christians, Armenians, Arab Christians, Nubians, secular intellectuals, and women's groups.

The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights
14000 Gunner's Place, Centerville, VA 20121
703-234-3954 x 7542
http://www.dhimmi.com

CDHR is a registered 501c3 non-profit organization. All donations are tax-deductible.

I agree that Radical Islamism is as much a danger as Communism and Nazism was, maybe even more so as it goes under a religious rather than political ideology.

I would welcome and would take part in any fight against this poison, in fact have stated so on many threads here.

Radical Islamism is a poison of the mind, the people it feeds on are the young, and the poor, just like Communism, its enemy is freedom, truth and a stable society.

I have stated that we should fight this war, but the objectives should be clear, and that does not mean Nuking Arab cities or burning down mosques are declaring a counter jihad.

Most of their supporters are, apart from a few stupid students and macho young men in the West, are third World Peasants most unemployed with nothing to hang onto but a poisons ideology this is the same as Communism.

As America saved Europe from Communism with the Marshall Plan we should imitate a similar plan in Afghanistan, and every other country that falls out of there grip

The only Muslims who don’t seem to have anything nice to say about the Taliban are the Afghanistan people them self’s, they know what it is like to live under a radical Islamism state.

In Iran the younger people are also turning against the hardliner Islamic clerics, they are fed up with the constant scarifies for a revolution few still believe in.

We should do what we did to Communism contain it and encourage its collapse from within.

Radical Islamism contains by its very nature the seeds of its own destruction just as Communism and Nazism did.

Tony

I am curious to know who the three are.

patent

No room for fence sitting. Bump.

There is nothing in fundamentalist Islam for women, for women it is a religion of force and coercion from cradle to grave.

Can you imagine a 13 year old virgin happy to be married to a 45 year old stranger as his 4th wife?

They had all better be planning their E&E routes if there is another 9-11....or worse.

How are we to distinguish the peaceful Muslims from the fanatical, homicidal Muslims about to murder thousands of our fellow citizens?

Evidence of wrongdoing is the customary criterion for making such judgments. Actual evidence, not rhetoric and suspicion.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

Where has their voice been in condemnation of those Arabs, whom for so long terrorized the world? Where has the Moslem voice been hiding, while people have routinely been massacred in the name of Allah and the Koran?

Exactly. And if they don't object to it, are they not tacitly endorsing it?

There is also the issue of Israel. If they're willing to kill Jewish men, women, and children, there is no reason to assume they won't do it to others as well. I'll start to believe their protestations of peacefulness when I see them quit the terrorism in Israel.

No, I think I'll keep defending it against people trying to condemn an entire religion for the actions of a few.

And thank you. You do realize, I hope, that you're going up against an organized agenda? This was the first aim of those behind the terrorists, to create a backlash in America against muslims and Islam. There have not been any particularly new slanders raised by this newly-arrived army of "sincere advisors," muslims have been reading this stuff for centuries, it's all been answered repeatedly from factual histories.

Those who speak without knowledge, or repeat falsehoods unknowingly, to fan prejudice against people they don't know, are merely serving the agenda of those behind the terror war.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

Can you imagine a 13 year old virgin happy to be married to a 45 year old stranger as his 4th wife?

I think you just described that Mormon polygamist that they threw in jail a few months ago.

If moderate Islam is so widespread, why is it so weak and cowed?

either...

1) It is too weak to be relevant, and will soon be overwhelmed by the orthodox (radicals)

OR

2) The moderates are quietly in sympathy with the radicals

Orthodoxy is not radical except in America, where all forms of religious orthodoxy are relegated to "old fairy tales" and "superstition." Orthodox Islam nurtures a population that is cooperative, peaceful, and socially cohesive, not competitive, pugnacious, and enamoured of egoism. Although Islam emphasizes and enhances individual growth and achievement, it does not make individuality a personality cult and push "freedom" all the way to license.

Add to that the disfranchisement of muslims from the conduct of their own political affairs that occurred during the tyrannical Abbasid dynasty over a thousand years ago, and institutionalize that tyranny as religious law, and you develop a population that is predisposed -- as Americans are predisposed -- to think "you can't fight City Hall" and to regard sheer lunacy in their rulers as an accident of nature that will eventually pass, hopefully.

Provide those same tyrannical rulers with modern weaponry and domestic intelligence methodologies, and it's not reasonable to expect the people to rise up in protest against anything that might have covert support from the powers-that-be. I don't know the Arabic for "I don't want to get involved," or "What can I do -- I'm only one person and I have to work for a living," or "I'm not sticking my neck out for someone who probably brought it on himself," but these protests are just as ubiquitous in muslim societies as they are in America.

So where were you when someone bought your Congressman with campaign contributions to do things you still don't know were going on? Where were you when our public schools eliminated all mention of religion except one, putting the stamp of temporal authority on only one "legitimate" claim to God's Favor? Where were you when it became politically correct to demonize one ethnic population and one religious faith of Abraham? Hitting the streets with signs and shouting and braving the fire hoses?

In some places the "fire hoses" are machineguns. Try walking a mile in those shoes.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

In jail where he belongs.

But when an entire society is based around polygamy, it is a social disaster.

The rich and powerful marry most of the available young girls, leaving millions of poor and powerless men angry and frustrated, with no chance for marriage ever.

These societies must be tyrannies to protect the powerful from the unmarried many, and they also need to focus the anger and frustration outward away from themselves.

And of course, these frustrated men make perfect dupes, eager to commit holy suicide in order to claim their 72 virgins in paradise.

But still you have a segment of a religion based in large part on Christian teachings still practicing polygomy. And wasn't the early Israeli society polygamous? I seem to recall the Bible speaking of mulitple wives for Abraham. Solomon had hundreds of wives. And whatever tensions and problems Muslim countries seem to have I don't think that lack of marriagable women is one of them.

All public posturing aside, what does the Quran really say about Christians and Jews and all who are considered infidels?

What kind of twisted religion promises its "holy warriors" an eternity of orgies with 72 virgins in return for committing mass murder in the name of its god?

One that nothing to do, in reality, with God.

Only an insane death cult posing as a religion.

Bump.

it's worthless as information, it has no bearing on finding and eliminating those behind the terror war, and it just sets us up for the next attack which won't come from muslims either. . . .

You do realize, I hope, that you're going up against an organized agenda? This was the first aim of those behind the terrorists, to create a backlash in America against muslims and Islam.

Who are these evil people behind the terror war? Your silence speaks volumes. As does the silence of Muslim leaders and clerics.

Where is the official condemnation of the perpetrators and those who espouse such violence and terrorism. I do not believe that all Muslims are evil, but I do not see ANY Muslim clerics who are issuing fatwahs against Bin Ladin and his minions along with the rest of the terrorists. Your apologetics are nice, but they are not convincing until you can give proof of the official renunciation of violence—period.

You are not seriously trying to equate a tiny, tiny minority of LDS believers versus the entire Islamic religion? It seems to me that when ever such a situation is discovered in the West, the adherents are arrested, tried and in most cases convicted. In contrast, multiple wives is in fact the norm for a successful man in Islamic countries, OBL has 4 wives in fact, as do ALL the rulers of the "Enlightened" middle eastern countries.

I'm sorry, but your attempt to equate isolated examples of simular beliefs into a comparison that shows "we do the same thing" is just nonsense.

knews hound

We have to properly identify the enemy and avoid shooting ourselves in the foot...I see three. Three major enemies....

Alright, I'll bite. Especially since your thoughts in #29 were well stated and appear reasonable.

First, just to try and keep my perspective, I acknowledge that it appears Arabic (Islamic?) thought has had significant qualitative influence European culture. In addition to the elements you mentioned that our culture adopted from the Arabic influence into Europe a thousand years ago, we also adopted the Arabic alphabet (that I'm using now), the Arabic system of numerals (the decimal system), the concept of zero as a number, the cultivated orange, and refined sugar. Althougth the latter might NOT have been such a good idea except for the European dental industry.

Second, as you may be correct in stating that our very lives depend on it, exactly who ARE those three enemies that you mention, but fail to identify by specific enumeration?

Where is the official condemnation of the perpetrators and those who espouse such violence and terrorism

They are being withheld from the news that reaches you. This has been the practice of our information media for decades.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

You are not seriously trying to equate a tiny, tiny minority of LDS believers versus the entire Islamic religion? It seems to me that when ever such a situation is discovered in the West, the adherents are arrested, tried and in most cases convicted.

The reason that one case made so many headlines is that Mormon polygamy is widespread and until recently has seldom been prosecuted.

The U.S. Supreme Court's determination that the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment did not protect Mormon polygamy was the end of the First Amendment, it has been increasingly gutted ever since and today the Free Exercise Clause is completely meaningless -- free exercise is now protected, where it is, by State Constitutions and by explicit "establishing" laws that allow specific practices to specific religious groups that for anyone else are illegal acts -- such as providing wine to minors in communion ceremonies. That is the current situation in church vs. state issues in American jurisprudence.

I do not think reciting the litany of abrogations of free exercise is particularly needful in this discussion, but there is no "free exercise" in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United States, a "compelling State interest" in having "uniform laws of general application" has reduced it to nothing. This is not news. Mormon polygamy was the occasion of the breaking of the dam for our common God-given religious rights to flood away. It is not "a tiny, tiny minority of LDS believers" that is deprived of the practice, in this world, of their faith, it is all of us.

Having said that, America is still the one place in the world where all of us can and do practice what we believe with considerable freedom, more than anywhere else. Mormon polygamous families have continued to exist all over the western states and elsewhere and they have largely been left alone and not prosecuted until an ambitious prosecutor comes along. That's been the American way. It still is, for the most part.

In contrast, multiple wives is in fact the norm for a successful man in Islamic countries, OBL has 4 wives in fact, as do ALL the rulers of the "Enlightened" middle eastern countries.

Monogamy -- originated as "law" by Nimrod son of Cush by Semiramis -- was emphasized to the millennial muslim world, where polygamy had been the more common practice among all the faiths of Abraham for centuries, as the western nations began to propogate colonialism among the subjugated peoples. It is now the predominant family structure in the millennial muslim world today, although those who can afford to support multiple families often do so. Discussing the relative merits of each approach to family life is not something that can be fruitful in an emotionally-charged and largely uninformed forum. For Mormons and for muslims, for Jews and Christians, monogamy is not, as some believe, a mandate of religion. It is only secular society that prevents a man from marrying more than one wife.

I'm sorry, but your attempt to equate isolated examples of similar beliefs into a comparison that shows "we do the same thing" is just nonsense.

But Non-Sequitur had said:

But still you have a segment of a religion based in large part on Christian teachings still practicing polygamy. And wasn't the early Israeli society polygamous? I seem to recall the Bible speaking of multiple wives for Abraham. Solomon had hundreds of wives. And whatever tensions and problems Muslim countries seem to have I don't think that lack of marriagable women is one of them.

That's all correct. I don't recall what the "we do the same thing" issue was, but the bottom line is that we are all children of Adam and start out with the same basic nature at birth. It doesn't change all that much, it just gets worse in varying degrees and directions until we return to God.

That "return" can come at any time in life or at the end of it, in many ways, some overt, some subtle and hardly conscious at all. It's always a choice. Some never make it but they return to Him anyway, believing it or not.

Americans are strange. We mostly believe it. That's common to the religions of Abraham, which are the "tents of Shem" -- and those of us who don't live in one or another of the tents of Shem surely live in the shade of the tents of Shem, that's America.

That's why our enemies are bent on destroying us.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

That is an ridiculous claim with the multitude of news sources available. On a scale of 1-10 you answer rates a negative 50.

I see you didn't attempt to answer the first question. How do you expect anyone to believe you when you lie and refuse to answer honest questions?

Tell us who these three nations are. You seem to be responding to everything else, except that. Do englighten us.

We have to properly identify the enemy and avoid shooting ourselves in the foot ... I see three. Three major enemies ...

Alright, I'll bite. Especially since your thoughts in #29 were well stated and appear reasonable.

Thank you. I'm sure I could readily find a thousand muslims to testify that I'm crazy. Ten thousand, probably. But ...

Yours is the third response to that reference I've seen. I responded to the first two by Freeper email, as follows:

My email address -- muslims@earthlink.net -- is posted. We can exchange PGP keys and have a discussion if you wish, after you establish to my satisfaction who you are. The FBI already knows who my suspects are, and why. It's not really difficult to figure out from the things I've written.

But I didn't provide a public key for initiation of the email key transfer, that first key will have to come from those who wish to correspond with me, to start a secure key transfer. I don't know that this HTML will allow the posting of a public key, most forums I frequent are text-based news servers, this is the only web-based HTML forum I visit.

I simply have no intention of placing the conclusions that I draw from forty-five years of concentration on religious knowledge, history, law, practice and sciences, applied to current events and the accumulating hard evidences, into a general forum where I recognize players from the enemies of humanity, who have lied to us all systematically and with dispossession aforethought, since nearly the time of Noah.

On the other hand, what I know is the legacy of everyone. It's all spelled out in Scripture, in every religious tradition, they are all originally from a single tapestry from the only God there is, despite the changes that have been written into or over all of them by men with narrow, worldly self-interests. So I have to keep a door open. Today that means encryption and authentication, the enemy of humanity is waging war on me because I'm an American and I'm a muslim. The enemy of humanity is waging war on you because you're an American and reasonable, and on others because they're American and Jewish or American and Christian or American and breathing, take your pick. Get the picture?

I'm not planning to be careless about who walks through this door, God might let someone close it at any time, that could be what I'm here for. Meanwhile, I know what I'm seeing and I'm waiting for specific conclusive evidence that -- thank God -- hasn't appeared yet. Still, six thousand dead is not an idle exercise or a trivial pursuit, someone's out to destroy us.

And muslims in America -- the patently obvious, most immediate, and demonstrably FIRST targets of a predictable reaction to the Tuesday Terror -- are right smack on the front line unarmed and noncombative and protected only by God and the American people.

So America's enemy includes those who have an aim to eliminate America's muslims who do not see as decisive the religious authority of Arab muslims or their followers or anyone from the millennial muslim world. There are several such parties who know we are not of those parties of contention that divide and contend in the eastern hemisphere.

And of course there are the Anti-Islam Brigades in these Threads who say we are. They're liars and they know it.

First, just to try and keep my perspective, I acknowledge that it appears Arabic (Islamic?) thought has had significant qualitative influence [on] European culture. In addition to the elements you mentioned that our culture adopted from the Arabic influence into Europe a thousand years ago, we also adopted the Arabic alphabet (that I'm using now), the Arabic system of numerals (the decimal system), the concept of zero as a number, the cultivated orange, and refined sugar. Althougth the latter might NOT have been such a good idea except for the European dental industry.

Egads -- muslims visited the scourge of refined sugar on people? I thought it was the reverse, as I read in William Dufty's Sugar Blues. Or did I forget the history of the development of trans-Atlantic shipping out of Rio de Janiero and the end of Wall Street and Portugal (using the muslim invention of astral navigation) that took Cuban sugar cane products to Algeria and the mideast?

Second, as you may be correct in stating that our very lives depend on it, exactly who ARE those three enemies that you mention, but fail to identify by specific enumeration?

Those with the capacity to properly investigate the details and act on them are fully aware of what I know and where I know it from, and they know a lot more besides, from muslim leaders on the ground and in America's communities, that I have no need to know -- so they don't tell me. Neither can I tell America's enemies how closely they've been identified and located. They already know how but they just can't believe their mistake and they're hoping it won't matter. It does. Part of this is a war of nerves, and I know I'm winning that one at this end.

I really like your running coyote.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

All public posturing aside, what does the Quran really say about Christians and Jews and all who are considered infidels?

Not being Muslim, you'll have to ask someone familiar with Koranic laws and teachings to answer that one.

Well, I have to say, you've piqued my curiosity. You dance around some subjects with allusions and inference, and attack others head on with absolute assertions.

And you do indeed seem to have drawn a number of conclusions about the world around us. It would be unlikely that you're correct on all counts, but it would seem you've put some time into forming those conclusions, so I'm always up to learn something new. Solving the puzzle of our world is probably one of the most intersting of all human passtimes, IMHO, although one of the most complex. It's all steeped in a vast historic and metaphysical complex of lies, disinformation, and charade. Pretty tough nut to crack.

And because I'm not in the mood to start up PGP communications with strangers in this environment either, I'll just let the "three enemy nations" notion pass. I suppose we'll find out in time by elimination.

Got any notion why the elite authorities failed to include Hezbollah and Hamas on their list of terrorists? Is it safe to say?

Americans are strange. We mostly believe it. [Returning to God] That's common to the religions of Abraham, which are the "tents of Shem" -- and those of us who don't live in one or another of the tents of Shem surely live in the shade of the tents of Shem, that's America....That's why our enemies are bent on destroying us.

Ok, so how about THIS one? You've alluded to "our enemies" in some generalized sense several times. Here you also mention the "tents of Shem", whatever that actually means, and somehow seem to suggest that this is at least one common thread as a target of those enemies. In addition, you noted it's been the same "enemy of humanity" from as far back as Noah. I seem to recall from one source at least, going back all the way to Genesis. Without comprimising your own position or personal safety, is there some world view elaboration you can make on just who this ancient enemy is, by ideology or other identifiable characteristics, either in the present physical world, or in the abstract sense? How does this enemy manefest itself? And why am I a also one of the targets? Because I'm American and breathing, which probably has to mean American period? Why does this enemy despise America? Does this enemy despise other cultures, races, historic groups as well? If so, why? I'm really curious about your notions on this.

BTW, I'm not sure about the assertion about refined sugar. I seem to recall it off the top of my head from a history class 35 years ago. Might or might not be true. I accepted it as so, along with the fact about the decimal system (how could THAT be unimportant). The real antithesis of ethnocentricity is giving credit where credit is due, and NOT the current politically slanted version of multicultural destabilization.

OK, can I get in on this too?

If we swap secret decoder rings can I the secret too?

I'll save you the trouble

Heres the answer...

wait for it !!!!

The Jews did it ! (sarcasm)

Please,

give me a break

If I haven't said it lately, it's good to have you back.

Thanks. The entire world seems boiling up all around us, threatening to cast us into abject obscurity, or hustle us onto the plains of Megiddo for the battle of Armageddon. I'm broke again, without a job, and wondering what on God's earth will befall us next.

And what do I do? I go out and kill a deer, haul it back, and cut it up for the winter. What a banal bone head this simple, sinful dawg really turns out to be.

OK, can I get in on this too?

LOL! ROFL! No, I'm afraid posting to this Thread is restricted, you can't and no one is allowed to read what you wrote, either. And you can't read my reply here, either.

If we swap secret decoder rings can I the secret too?

Seems to be a word missing between "can I" and "the secret." Can you smoke "the secret"? Can you find out "the secret"? Can you what "the secret"?

A clue for you: a "secret" is something known by one person.

I'll save you the trouble
Here's the answer...

wait for it !!!!

The Jews did it ! (sarcasm)

Bzzzzzzzap. Turn in your pointy tin-foil hat, you pushed the wrong button.

You can go to Steve Gibson's computer security newsgroups at news://news.grc.com/grc.ten-forward where I posted about 900K on the Tuesday Terror from September 11 to whenever I came back to Free Republic. You'll find that I consistently stated that Israel did not do it. It's on the record, the posts are there, you can read them all. You won't have any trouble finding the posts, my email address remains the same no matter what screen name I use. In those newsgroups, all of my posts have a cryptographic header authenticating that the post is from me -- like most of the regulars in those newsgroups.

So much for your crystal ball.

Of course, you could try to convince me the Israelis did it, a lot of armchair analysts and pop-up prophets have tried.

Please, give me a break

Just did. I just broke your bubble with clear, solid, verifiable proof that anyone at Free Republic can check quite easily that you're fanning the flames of anti-muslim backlash without the slightest idea of what you're talking about. So why are you trying to promote the terrorists' first objective?

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

Satan did it!

"Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish,
the Christians the  converts; anyone who
(1) believes in GOD and
(2) believes in the Hereafter, and
(3) leads a righteous life,
will receive their recompense from their Lord;
they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."


Quran 2:62 and 5:69

And what do I do? I go out and kill a deer, haul it back, and cut it up for the winter.

This is wisdom and peace.

When one looks around and sees what is happening on these threads and in the streets it becomes so very clear how it was able to happen to the poor Jews of Europe.
The irrational hatred of mankind has not been removed despite all the trappings of an advanced civilization.
I weep for those who hate us so, for their hearts are dark.
peace.

Well, I have to say, you've piqued my curiosity. You dance around some subjects with allusions and inference, and attack others head on with absolute assertions.

I have to be very, very careful here. Some things are established with compelling evidence, some aren't.

And you do indeed seem to have drawn a number of conclusions about the world around us. It would be unlikely that you're correct on all counts, but it would seem you've put some time into forming those conclusions, so I'm always up to learn something new. Solving the puzzle of our world is probably one of the most intersting of all human passtimes, IMHO, although one of the most complex. It's all steeped in a vast historic and metaphysical complex of lies, disinformation, and charade. Pretty tough nut to crack.

Indeed it is. And nowhere else in the world has the complex tapestry of threads and patches from virtually every culture known to humanity like we see is America. It's entirely likely that the entire human gene pool is present in America.

Including those liars.

And because I'm not in the mood to start up PGP communications with strangers in this environment either, I'll just let the "three enemy nations" notion pass. I suppose we'll find out in time by elimination.

Secure key exchange using a variation of the Rivest-Shamir Interlock Protocol is tedious, I agree.

Got any notion why the elite authorities failed to include Hezbollah and Hamas on their list of terrorists? Is it safe to say?

They are not the only parties missing from the frozen assets list. I'm not sure whether those assets are within reach of an Executive Order. But we have some crackerjack people in the basement of the NSA who can do interesting things with electronic finance. I suspect a number of people will have rude surprises waiting for them on some morning in the near future. Vincent Foster was sure surprised.

Americans are strange. We mostly believe it. [Returning to God] That's common to the religions of Abraham, which are the "tents of Shem" -- and those of us who don't live in one or another of the tents of Shem surely live in the shade of the tents of Shem, that's America....That's why our enemies are bent on destroying us.

Ok, so how about THIS one? You've alluded to "our enemies" in some generalized sense several times. Here you also mention the "tents of Shem", whatever that actually means, and somehow seem to suggest that this is at least one common thread as a target of those enemies. In addition, you noted it's been the same "enemy of humanity" from as far back as Noah. I seem to recall from one source at least, going back all the way to Genesis.

That would have been Genesis 9:27, which in the Semitic tongues begins "God Opens to Japheth and he abides in the Houses of Shem," which in the Semitic tongues says a lot more showing that the faiths of Abraham -- including Judaism, Christianity and Islam -- are identified by "Houses." The rabbis have a different twist to it, but they didn't hear what Noah told Japheth after Ham and Shem left for the Holy Land. The rabbis' twist of the rest of the verse is off, too, but it's understandable from their nationalist perspective.

Without compromising your own position or personal safety ...

My personal safety is in the Hand of One Who will return me to Himself whenever He wishes for whatever purpose. I don't worry about it, much to the annoyance of some of my peers.

... is there some world view elaboration you can make on just who this ancient enemy is, by ideology or other identifiable characteristics, either in the present physical world, or in the abstract sense?

I'll go with ancient ideological abstract on one corner of the tripod and mention Nimrod son of Cush son of Ham son of Noah, and Nimrod's mother Semiramis who claimed she was a virgin and that Nimrod was a divine child born without any human contact. Babylon was his capital. That should be sufficient to start tongues wagging about "old fairy tales" and that will be informative, to see who they are.

How does this enemy manefest itself? And why am I also one of the targets? Because I'm American and breathing, which probably has to mean American period? Why does this enemy despise America?

Because of what God does here. That's back to Genesis 9:27 again. Today, because of what God has already done here. These next paragraphs are from A Serious Islam Question :

We are targets because we actually have freedom of and from religion.

We abide in the tents of Shem, the religions of the House of Abraham -- all of us Jews, Christians, muslims, irreligious and atheist alike -- in America. Here are the freedoms of religious belief and practice -- freedom of and freedom from religion -- that threaten those behind the terror war. We do not believe that anyone has a claim from God to sit in judgment on everyone else. American Jews do not follow the orders of Tel Aviv, American Catholics do not accept the authority of Rome, American muslims do not swear allegiance to any of the Arabs or their followers, and Americans do not concern ourselves with the religious nut next door -- who, according to some educated minds, irrationally believes in "God" or some such fantasy -- unless and until he makes a problem out of it that endangers others or harms them. That's American law and in a situation that appears unique in the world, Americans basically respect the law.

Muslims didn't do this and aren't behind it, we're the first target of it. It is Islam in America -- utterly beyond the control of any party or doctrine from the terminally-collapsed millennial muslim world -- that threatens those behind this terror war, and the integrity and fundamental piety of the American people that threatens them even more.

Those bent on destroying us claim exclusive authority from God to rule the world. Americans won't accept that. So we have to be removed. The terror war has nothing to do with our demented foreign policy in the Middle East, it has to do with our basic sense of fair play and rejection of insane claims to a "natural" or "God-given" supremacy of one family of man over all others.

Does this enemy despise other cultures, races, historic groups as well? If so, why? I'm really curious about your notions on this.

Jesus told the Children of Israel that God would take the Kingdom from them and give it to others. That didn't make him terrifically popular at Temple, and they are still waiting for a Messiah more to their liking. The Arabs are waiting for someone from their tribe of Quraish to show up as the Imam Mahdi -- the Persians called Khomeini "Imam" indicating that they thought he was at least possibly their own version of "Imam Mahdi" -- who will lead the Arabs to a restoration of the Arab empire of Harun ar-Rashid of Arabian Nights fame. (David Koresh of Waco Texas' Branch Davidians claimed to be of the Quraish, and some of his remaining followers claim he was the Imam Mahdi, by the way. For a lot of people these "old fairy tales" have very present meaning.) A more reliably prophesied candidate for God's Favor -- a people who were not with Shem in the Holy Land and were thus "cut off" from the line of Revelation -- is not exactly popular with them, either.

And those who think God belongs to them seem to disagree pretty strenuously among themselves, too. I'd say it's not exactly one big happy family.

Sometimes it's necessary to read what I've written a second time, to put it in context with something I wrote at another moment.

BTW, I'm not sure about the assertion about refined sugar. I seem to recall it off the top of my head from a history class 35 years ago. Might or might not be true. I accepted it as so, along with the fact about the decimal system (how could THAT be unimportant). The real antithesis of ethnocentricity is giving credit where credit is due, and NOT the current politically slanted version of multicultural destabilization.

I stopped using burned salt and refined sugar decades ago, I use mined (or kosher) salt, and milk and honey in my coffee. Multicultural destabilization just doesn't go at all well with my coffee.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

82 Posted on 10/01/2001 04:42:36 PDT by packrat01
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83 Posted on 10/01/2001 05:09:16 PDT by mommadooo3
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84 Posted on 10/01/2001 05:24:03 PDT by Aquinasfan
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85 Posted on 10/01/2001 05:32:12 PDT by Aquinasfan
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86 Posted on 10/01/2001 05:36:57 PDT by Aquinasfan
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87 Posted on 10/01/2001 05:54:03 PDT by tonycavanagh
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88 Posted on 10/01/2001 06:03:52 PDT by BritBulldog
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89 Posted on 10/01/2001 06:04:39 PDT by Who is George Salt?
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90 Posted on 10/01/2001 06:10:04 PDT by GottliebBerger
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91 Posted on 10/01/2001 06:15:38 PDT by aruanan
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92 Posted on 10/01/2001 06:18:20 PDT by tonycavanagh
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93 Posted on 10/01/2001 06:20:49 PDT by DooDahhhh
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94 Posted on 10/01/2001 07:39:25 PDT by BritBulldog
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95 Posted on 10/01/2001 08:03:23 PDT by Travis McGee
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96 Posted on 10/01/2001 08:10:14 PDT by TrueBeliever9
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97 Posted on 10/01/2001 08:17:55 PDT by Sabramerican
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98 Posted on 10/01/2001 08:43:56 PDT by tonycavanagh
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99 Posted on 10/01/2001 08:50:28 PDT by tonycavanagh
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100 Posted on 10/01/2001 09:11:54 PDT by Travis McGee
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101 Posted on 10/01/2001 12:16:49 PDT by BritBulldog
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102 Posted on 10/01/2001 13:41:09 PDT by ankaboot
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