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ODIGO SAYS WORKERS WARNED OF ATTACK

Foreign Affairs News
Source: Ha'aretz
Published: September 28, 2001 Author: Yuval Dror
Posted on 09/28/2001 08:30:22 PDT by Justin Raimondo

Odigo says workers were warned of attack

By Yuval Dror

Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.

As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.

Yeah the Jews did it. </tin foil>

This is fuel for the fire for the radical Islam assertion that the Israelis did it.

The Israelies TOLD us about it. We just ignored it. We get these warnings pretty often.

Ha'aretz is not exactly Al Ahram. It is a respected Israeli daily newspaper.

This is a variation of an old rumour being put out by the anti-Israel crowd. The rumour is that a whole bunch of Jews were warned before the attack. This fits in with the anti-Israel crowd's assertion that all of this carnage was wrought by Mossad agents who pretended to be Islamic Extremist terrorists.

Odds are very good that this is all horse hockey. Notice how I tastefully referred to horses, revered in Arabia, rather than to pigs, hated by Moslems and Jews alike.

"Yeah the Jews did it. </tin foil> "

Even with 'tin foil', why go THERE?

Might as well say, our FBI . . .did it. . .hindsight really is 20/20.

Have to say as well, our FBI are informed to the realities of terrorism; could say they should have taken this more responsibily, but who knows, maybe they did; just not in time to prevent this.

Humans. . .in all kinds of error. . .

Not necessarily, or even probably. What it fuels is the idea that the Israelis KNEW about it....

The fact that this is an Israeli newspaper does not make much difference. First, the idea of doing something horrible and making it look like Jews were behind it is not exactly a new idea in the Middle East, or anywhere, for that matter. If you will examine Islamic media, you will find countless accusations of Zionist conspiracies. In fact, for many in the West it is the same. A Zionist conspiracy is alleged to explain pretty much everything in history.

It does not take much to send warnings to a few Jews in the building to later make it look fishy to those Moslems inclined to believe in Zionist conspiracies. Remember, the idea is not persuade a judge or jury, or even the average American. The idea is to provide something that will suggest something fishy to fellow Moslems who are steeped in these Zionist conspiracy theories. Bin Laden wants the whole Islamic world to unite in a Holy War against the West and against those he views as the West's proxies in the Middle East.

So you're saying... what?

That the messages were not actually sent?

That the messages WERE sent, but it's all a plot to make it look like the Israelis did it?

That the messages were sent, but it's all a plot to make it look like the Israelis KNEW about it in advance?

But since we don't know where the messages came from -- the company, Odigo, has an office in Israel, but so what? The messages could have come from anywhere -- this news article supports none of the above conclusions. Nor does it rule them out (although I would rule out the "Israelis did it" conclusion just on its face).

Not necessarily, or even probably. What it fuels is the idea that the Israelis KNEW about it....

What fuels it is Hezbollah, Hamas & Islamic Jihad, among others.

While I would rule out the Israeli's DOING it I would not rule out the Israeli's knowing about it. It would be in their best interest, which is after all what they have proven time and time again to be all that they care about, which is as it should be, to give us a vague enough warning to be able to say "see we told you so" but not descriptive enough that we could actually stop the attack. The effect is that the American public doesn't care what happens to the palestinians now and the public would give them a free hand to deal with them as they see fit. The Administration on the other hand seems to be doing some arm twisting a-la the new cease fire, proposals for statehood, ect...but I really don't see that going too far.

Yes, but is it TRUE? Or doesn't that interest you?

Whoever said it was "Jews" who got the messages anyways? I never assumed "Jews".. Not all Israeli's are "Jews"...

I just called the New York office of Odigo. They ain't answering their phone. Maybe some Freepers would like to try. Here is their contact info:

Odigo, Inc.

11 Broadway, Suite 365

New York, NY 10004

Telephone: (877) 809-8080

Telephone: (212) 809-2002

Fax: (212) 809-2092

Or:

Odigo, Ltd. 60 Medinat Hayehudim St.

P.O. Box 12832

Herzliya 46733 Israel

Telephone: (972) 9-957-7488

Fax: (972) 9-957-7316

Or, you might try emailing them:

media@Odigo.com

There was a previous story, in the Jerusalem Post (I believe) that detailed a visit by Israeli intelligence officers to Washington more than a month before the attack, in which they warned Washington that some kind of vague attack on the US was being planned, but no details were given.

In this context, it seems to me that this story in Ha'aretz (if true) is a significant development

Meaning?

The Israeli Mossad knew about this in advance?
or

The Israelis who work for the New York based Odigo did? (Do we know the ethnic background of the two workers in question? Did they think those instant chat communications were credible and they intentionally not informed the authorities before the attack?)

How do we know this is not a hoax perpetrated by the two employees? This is a strange little story that a respectable newspaper would not have published until it had investigated it more thoroughly.

Don't ask me, bud. I'm trying right now to contact Odigo. Ha'aretz is, indeed, a respectable newspaper. I will contact the author of the piece.

For once, I am utterly speechless.....

If only...

Uh oh, here comes the Amen Corner.....

If your dumb ostrich dreams came true we would bug out of the Mideast with Saddam and Iran taking over Saudi and Kuwaiti oil. Then China moves in.

Your program for the MidEast is the same as Bin Laden's and Saddam Hussein's

You alwys bug out when the going gets rough.

You never hang around ...........'cause your fool ideas would get smacked down.

Speechless?

This piece of fluff must have got you so excited you forgot to post this thread here under one of your stooge's names. Like *pay now bill clinton*.

Quite telling what gets Justin so excited.

What a nutjob you are. Hey, why don't you comment on the article posted above? If you want to debate my latest column, go to where it's posted. I am hoping someone can make sense of this item in Ha'aretz, and, since nothing you say EVER makes sense, you're on the wrong thread, bud.

Hey speechless. The warning was non-specific:"""The message was a nonspecific threat that didn't mention the World Trade Center, Diamandis said. "It was the timing that made it unusual."

The company was as lax as most of the intelligence community in the U.S. and around the world. Now, as a pesudo-journalist, I note up there you attempted to contact this company after you posted the story and drew your speechless conclusion. Is this the usual methodology and high standards you employ in your wrtiting career?

pesudo-journalist=pseudo-journalist

How does RECIEVING the threat make the Israeli's complicit?

What's there to comment on FOOL! Far more intersting how this news got you so excited. I just pinged you on another earth shaking news blip.

Bin Laden denies terror attacks and points finger at Jews >
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3bb4bcc5348b.htm

No one is saying anyone is complicit. But the FBI is indeed investigating this. What it does imply, though, is that someone -- aside, perhaps, from the perpetrators -- knew in advance about the attack. Who is that someone? I don't know.

The warning was specific enough to have the FBI and Israeli law enforcement on the trail of the sender(s). As for the rest, you can blame Ha'aretz, not me. I am posting the news, not writing it.

Your ugly tone speaks for itself.

No one is saying anyone is complicit. But the FBI is indeed investigating this. What it does imply, though, is that someone -- aside, perhaps, from the perpetrators -- knew in advance about the attack. Who is that someone? I don't know.

Exactly, and common sense and logic tell you that it is the SENDER who knew, and who the FBI is looking for them with full Israeli cooperation. It was the reciever of the message who reported it as soon as the event ocurred and they realized it could have some meaning.

The warning was specific enough to have the FBI and Israeli law enforcement on the trail of the sender(s). As for the rest, you can blame Ha'aretz, not me. I am posting the news, not writing it.

Big deal. Non-specific it says. I suspect that most of these generic threats received if post-facto reported to the FBI or other agencies will be followed up. You tried to draw out an insidious angle and yet now attempt to state, " I just posted the story." Yeah, you posted it and then exclaimed you were speechless.

Why the heck are you trying to call the company? Are you hoping someone will crack and spill their guts to you? Nothing better to do?

What it does imply, though, is that someone -- aside, perhaps, from the perpetrators -- knew in advance about the attack.

And deliberately sent warnings which DID NOT MENTION THE WORLD TRADE CENTER to an office in Israel. Yes, that's insidiously clever. Am I following you correctly so far?

Justin Raimondo says: What it fuels is the idea that the Israelis KNEW about it....

Justin Raimondo says: No one is saying anyone is complicit.

Please tell me where the Israeli's KNEW about anything. Some guy in Israeli got a message, thought nothing of it. After the attack, he allerted Israeli Intelligence and then the FBI. Please explain how you arrived at the conclusion "the ISRAELIS KNEW"

Yes, but is it TRUE? Or doesn't that interest you?

Not when it's pushed by you. We know where your sentiments are, and they aren't with the United States.

What it fuels is the idea that the Israelis KNEW about it....

8 Posted on 09/28/2001 08:53:29 PDT by Justin Raimondo

[ Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | Top | Last ]

Hey, looks like you did more than just post.Speechless, what fuel are you running on:anti-Semitic fuel (Oops sorry, there's that accusation again).

Yes, two Israelis knew about it -- the two people who received the messages. Duh-UH! Also, you're assuming that the senders were -- whom? Osama bin Laden & Co.? If we put this in the context of what we already know -- that the Israelis made a special trip to Washington more than a month before the attack -- then this little news item takes on added significance. The question is: what did they know? Did they tell us everything? And now this....

The only issue is WHO SENT THE MESSAGE, if it has any signifigance at all.

"Again" is right. Trying to get a thread pulled by filling it with your favorite poison? What a transparent tactic. What's funny is that someone is accusing me of "anti-Semitism" because I posted an article from Ha'aretz! Lent -- get bent.

No. The other issue is: why these recipients?

It's not WHAT you post from it's HOW YOU TREAT THE SUBJECT MATTER. Small logical oversight there Justin?

I hear you have a website. Is that true?

Oh god, it's a nutball convention....

BUMP1

Oh god, it's a nutball convention....

No, that's here.

Another little news item from Ha'aretz [9/17/01]:

5 Israelis detained for `puzzling behavior' after WTC tragedy

By Yossi Melman

Five Israelis who had worked for a moving company based in New Jersey are being held in U.S. prisons for what the Federal Bureau of Investigation has described as "puzzling behavior" following the terror attack on the World Trade Center in New York last Tuesday. The five are expected to be deported sometime soon.

The families of the five, who asked that their names not be released, said that their sons had been questioned by the FBI for hours on end, had been kept in solitary confinement for three days, and had been humiliated, stripped of their clothes and blindfolded.

The mother of one of the young men explained the chain of events as she understands it to Ha'aretz:

She said that the five had worked for the company, which is owned by an Israeli, for between two months and two years. They had been arrested some four hours after the attack on the Twin Towers while filming the smoking skyline from the roof of their company's building, she said. It appears that they were spotted by one of the neighbors who called the police and the FBI.

The mother said that the families and friends of the five in Israel had known nothing of the men's whereabouts for a number of days.

"When they finally let my son make a phone call for the first time to a friend in the United States two days ago, he told him that he had been tortured by the FBI in a basement," the mother said. "He was stripped to his underwear; he was blindfolded and questioned for 14 hours. They thought that because he has citizenship of a European country as well as of Israel that he was working for the Mossad [Israel's secret service]."

Seven FBI agents later stormed the apartment of one of the Israelis, searched it and questioned his roommate. The Israeli owner of the company, who has U.S. citizenship, was also questioned. Both men were subsequently released.

The families here complained that the Israeli consulate in New York and the situation room set up by the Foreign Ministry there to locate missing Israelis had done nothing to help their sons. The Foreign Ministry told the families that the FBI had denied holding the five and that the consulate had chosen to believe the FBI, the mother said.

The five were transferred out of the FBI's facility on Saturday morning and are now being held in two prisons in New Jersey by the Immigration and Naturalization Services. They are charged with illegally residing in the United States and working there without permits.

The Foreign Ministry said in response that it had been informed by the consulate in New York that the FBI had arrested the five for "puzzling behavior." They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery.

"Puzzling behavior" indeed....

Yeah, why don't you tell us about your website. Let me guess the name:

"EinSatzeGruppen Amen Choir Are US" or maybe it is "Proud Member of the Fifth Column"

Ah, here come the haters. It's amazing how quickly they mobilize. There must be a reason for that....

Your are either with us or you are with the terrorists.

There must be a reason for that....

We're all on the Mossad's payroll.

And who is "us" -- the Mossad?

"Puzzling behavior" indeed....

Hahaha. This is another of your "just posting" routines. Post an article (which has been posted at least three times on FR the last several days) and then make a snide comment. Of course the fact that they might be Israeli Arabs didn't occur to you either. They had to be JEWS, right Justin? And if they were Jews the fact that,"They are said to have had been caught videotaping the disaster and shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery would not cause you to give them the benefit of the doubt on the "interpreted" part BECAUSE they were JEWS, right Justin? Your anti-Semitic TIN-FOIL hat is growing with more canards and accusations by the minute.

I am indeed puzzled by anyone laughing and seeming to celebrate the death of so many people -- while videotaping it, no less -- and their ethnicity, religion, or whatever is irrelevant. I merely point out that this occurred, that they are Israeli citizens, and were in this country illegally. Draw your own conclusions -- but don't ascribe them to me, you nutball.

"Puzzling behavior" indeed....

One thing I'm sure of. There's no puzzling behaviour in your posting themes today. It's completely consistent with your character.

Uh oh, here comes the Amen Corner.....

Gee, not only are you anti-semitic, but bullying, threatening and abusive, too.

You flunked the court-mandated anti-abusive behavior sessions again, didn't you Justin?

You need help only intensive psychotherapy and psychotropic drugs can give, you really do. And electroshock therapy is making a comeback. You might want to give it a try.

There are 130+ Israelis missing and presumed dead in the WTC rubble.

Yes, that's one reason why the behavior of those guys on the rooftop is puzzling....

Gee, not only are you anti-semitic, but bullying, threatening and abusive, too.

Oh no, Justin is an ANTISEMITE? He seemed like such a nice boy. Has anyone phoned the FBI or the Homeland Security Forces? I am sure they will take care of this little problem. Sig Heil!

Same old crap from you & your butt-buddy Rainmondo. Yawn.

There are 112,521,979 icq users worldwide...When u sign up you can put any country or name or whatever you want .They need to see when this person signed up for icq,and where the ip address is from.

So they could be arab -isralies

Same old crap from you & your butt-buddy Rainmondo. Yawn.

OK tough guy, whatever you say.

It is a respected Israeli daily newspaper.

Not by me!

It has a pro-Palestinian slant, but yes, it does have credibility.

BUMP2

their ethnicity, religion, or whatever is irrelevant.

REALLY???????????????????????????????????

?

?

?

Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen

Why would the WORKERS at the company receive the messages? This seems very strange (I'm not saying it's untrue! Everything about this case is strange)

Yes, that's one reason why the behavior of those guys on the rooftop is puzzling....

Only if you assume they are JEWS! Their ethnicity was LEFT OUT BY HA'ARETZ. Now what do you think they are?

Justin, You are wasting your time here trying to open the eyes of this pathetic herd of brainwashed freepers. This nation will have to go alot deeper into the ditch before these so called "conservatives" realise what they have been "conserving"

xm177e2 preparing to hose down a thread with numerous objections and requests for clarification.
When he is done, his ideological enemies are nowhere to be found, having retreated back to their fetid holes.

ANSWER ME, RAIMONDO

You're smart enough not to come out directly and say what you really think, but it's pretty obvious. If we piece together what you've said, your views are obvious:

THE JEWS PROBABLY KNEW ABOUT IT AND LET US BE ATTACKED

WHY? BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL-KNOWING, CONNIVING AND MANIPULATIVE

AND THAT THEY COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT NON-JEWISH LIVES LOST TO ADVANCE THEIR GLOBALIST NEO-CON AGENDA

Or are you going to attack me for calling you an anti-Semite? Boo hoo.

Justin, you overlook the most likely explanation:

That some of these folks wanted to rub it in to Israelis that they were capable of destruction, and play with their minds. From now on, anyone can link to this article, and send an IM detailing a threat.

In the Middle East, humans have gone from contemplating how they can build a better world, to how they can better hurt and destroy each other. Woe is us.

Your psycho ravings, and similar rantings above, are all in response to -- what? All of this screaming and yodeling because I posted a simple news article from Ha'aretz, and said that "I am speechless"? I posted it in hopes that someone -- anyone -- could explain what it means, and because it has a certain tantalizing air. Period.

Is it possible that some intelligence agency (or agencies) knew about the Twin Towers attack in advance, or at least had some indication of it? I wouldn't rule it out. As we know, Israeli officials came to Washington some months prior with a vague warning. What about the Arab countries, deeply involved in terrorism, especially the hardline faction of the Iranian hierarchy? With all their contacts, it would be hard to believe that they didn't know something.

By the way, I wouldn't treat the political term "neoconservative" as synonymous with those of the Jewish faith. I have never equated the two. The neocon fealty to Israel, which amounts to unconditional support, is much broader than that, encompassing everyone from Jerry Falwell to George Will.

Not only if you assume they are Jews. ANYBODY up there on a rooftop applauding the destruction of the twin towers while videotaping the whole thing has got to be, uh, slightly suspicious. Don't you think?

I am absolutely not wasting my time. First, I enjoy posting on FR, dammit. And I will not be driven out by nutball fanatics. Secondly, I get a LOT of letters of support from thinking Freepers. Remember, there are twenty lurkers (if not more) for every activer poster.

Your conjecture is entirely possible. If so, though, it would represent a breakdown of the fanatic discipline so far displayed by the terrorists. This taunting would provide a means of tracing the sender.

If so, though, it would represent a breakdown of the fanatic discipline so far displayed by the terrorists. This taunting would provide a means of tracing the sender.

To the library at Bir Zeit University or UC Berkeley? How is this detrimental?

If so, though, it would represent a breakdown of the fanatic discipline so far displayed by the terrorists. This taunting would provide a means of tracing the sender.

To the library at Bir Zeit University or UC Berkeley? How is this detrimental to these savages' cause?

If their hackers are half as bright as ours, they can do a pretty good job of staying hidden. But who knows, maybe it came from one of the soon-to-die terrorists themselves?

Another explanation at odds with your theory that you overlook is that Bin Laden's group has previously sent threats to highly secret addresses in Saudi Arabia, if memory serves me correctly, something like the undisclosed number the crown prince uses to converse with heads of state, not to impart information per se, but to make it clear that they have utterly penetrated the Saudi regime. It could be that they have "assets" in Israel, and wanted to make the point. Whoever received the information would presumably have thought it was a joke. Stunts of this sort would explain the utter panic aboard air force 1.

I have no "theory": I posted it here to get Freeper input. I'm afraid that the only theory I've come up with at the end of it is that there is an organized effort to make sure that no rational discussion is possible on FR any longer. And I have a theory about THAT -- it won't work!

The whole article sounds very weak. A lot of hearsay with little proof.

I am indeed puzzled by anyone laughing and seeming to celebrate the death of so many people -- while videotaping it, no less -- and their ethnicity, religion, or whatever is irrelevant. I merely point out that this occurred, that they are Israeli citizens, and were in this country illegally. Draw your own conclusions -- but don't ascribe them to me, you nutball.

Disingenuous

...at its apex

Not necessarily, or even probably. What it fuels is the idea that the Israelis KNEW about it.... #8

I have no "theory": I posted it here to get Freeper input. #80

These statements are incompatible; I hope you recognize it. I do, and have drawn conclusions.

This article is short on details. They don't know who sent the messages yet. It doesn't say why these two workers in particular would get these messages, nor has any motive been constructed. Hell, they don't even know if the messages were just some sort of joke that went badly wrong - the article doesn't say either what the messages actually said!

It is way, way, too early to draw anything useful or telling about this. I realise with your sympathies you'd like to prove Israel has been dealing with America in an underhanded way, but this article proves nothing in particular.

Case dismissed.

Ivan

The case is still developing: too early to dismiss. And I have no particular theory, yet, about what it all means, regardless of your rather fanciful idea of my "bias." But, as you can see, merely posting the article has stirred up certain paranoid elements. So be it....

It fuels the idea that the Israelis knew, but proves ... nothing. No, the two statements are quite compatible. In tandem with the piece in the Computer News, and the odd story about the videotaping Israelis, the above news item is at least cause to investigate whether SOMEone in Israel knew more than they were telling -- without, of course, drawing any conclusions in advance.

The case is still developing: too early to dismiss. And I have no particular theory, yet, about what it all means, regardless of your rather fanciful idea of my "bias." But, as you can see, merely posting the article has stirred up certain paranoid elements. So be it....

Come now, you have continually posted opinions about how America should abandon its current foreign policy, in particular its support for Israel. You have truly overreached by posting this article, acting out of hope more than anything else, that somehow your biases will be proven correct by the facts. This is really a stretch.

Ivan

Justin,

Knowing is not the same as doing.

I think maybe there were warning signs, but no one wanted to believe them. It's easy to recognise warning signs in retrospect, but it's even easier to jump to conclusions.

Remember the news report from Germany, that said how some individual picked by their immigration service warned that something was going to happen? He was not believed by German intelligence, and so this assertion was not passed to our intelligence service.

Some people reach the conclusion the Israelies were involved. I do not. I draw the line at concluding the Israelies did it, because some warnings came through Israel. Should we conclude that Germans were witholding information from us for nefarious reasons? No.

Right to the point, as usual, Ivan.

Of course the Israelis didn't do it. Did they know about it? They warned the US -- but what did the warning consist of? We don't know, only that it wasn't very specific.

This thread is alive, but the thread about this thread being pulled has been pulled. Go figure.

LOL.

I wrote the author of the above posted article, and he just replied. Here is the gist of our correspondence:

Dear Mr. Dror:

I have read your story on the "instant message" allegedly received by two workers at the Odigo instant messaging company 2 hours prior to the Twin Towers attack 2 hours prior to the event. I have a few questions:

1) What was the content of the messages?

2) Where were the workers located -- in the New York office of Odigo, or in the Israeli division?

3) Who are the employees?

4) Did you personally interview Odigo's CEO, cited in the article, and can you personally vouch for the authenticity of this story?

Here is his reply:

Justin,

I agree, it is puzzling. about the questions you asked.

1. the content was simple: in a few hours the twin towers are about to explode.

2. one of the worker was located New York the other in Israel.

3. I have no Idea

4. I cant give you an honesty certification for Mr. Mekover. I can say that Odigo is a serious company and I cant imagine Mr. Mekover making up an entire story about FBI agents, meetings, phone calls and giving IP addresses and other private information about his users, unless it was true.

Also, I might add that Mr. Mekover himself said: "we get a lot of this messages from people who wants to get attention. maybe one of them made a joke and after 2 hours saw his joke comes true. it doesnt mean that he is the terrorist".

hope I helped. Yuval. > > >

So, now we know more:

1) One of the employees was in New York -- a few blocks from the World Trade Center when it exploded.

2) This wasn't some vague premonition of a nameless disaster: it specifically warned of the destruction of the twin towers.

Please tell me this isn't ... spooky.

Correction. You know one of the employees was in New York, but not that he was a few blocks from the World Trade Centre. That's a leap in logic worthy of the Guardian.

Second, the content of the message said that the WTC would "explode" - not have planes crash into them or be "attacked".

Until we know who sent the messages and why, it is too early to draw any conclusions. Particularly ones that you would dearly love to prove Israel's government was somehow negligent of America's interests.

Ivan

Your secret swastika is showing again. Put your pacifist jacket over your brown shirt.

The offices of Odigo (see above) are a few blocks from the WTC. But then a Brit wouldn't know that...

And all I said was that it was spooky, Ivy. Almost as spooky as ...you.

I wouldn't discount the possibility that this is a hoax being perpetrated either by Odigo's CEO or on him. Considering some of the other wild rumors and astonishing frauds that have come out of the WTC attack (such as fabricated reports of trapped victims calling out on cell phones, and miraculous rescues that never happened), an Odigo hoax is not implausible.

We'll probably never know. If the FBI is able to track down the sender, that information is not likely to be reported to the public. And even if it's a hoax, the FBI is not likely to publically confirm or deny it, so there'd be no blowback for Odigo.

the above news item is at least cause to investigate whether SOMEone in Israel knew more than they were telling

Not really. Odigo is available to anyone in the world, not just Israelis. Go download it for yourself here. Anyone, anywhere could have sent it. They also claim to have received the message a mere 2 hours before the bombing, and until the bombing there was no reason to think that it meant very much. What were they telling and what do you think they knew?

Your distinction between "idea" and "theory" strikes me as anti-semantic. I do not make this point lightly.

And all I said was that it was spooky, Ivy. Almost as spooky as ...you.

Well "Justine", a "few" blocks in New York City terms, and having lived there for a while I can say this with some certainty, can be quite a long way away. Are we talking Chelsea Clinton distance?

And secondly, are you seriously going to deny that you really wish that Israel gets to be proven to be the bogeyman that you view it to be?

What is spooky is how you are willing to leap to conclusions, yet at the same time say you are not leaping to conclusions, without sufficient information. That should put paid to any credibility you ascribe to yourself as a writer or a journalist. Or given the status of the mainstream American media, perhaps you fit right in.

Ivan

Yes, it's spooky, but not really very suspicious... unless one is generally suspicious of Israelis.

Do you recall the thread here about the FBI raiding an Austin based ISP that hosted apx 500 Islamic/Arab web sites about 3 weeks before the attack at the WTC? That is highly more intriguing, don't you think? Sort of coincides with the alleged intelligence information Israel shared with the USA 6 weeks ago.

5 days before the attack this story broke:

FBI Raids Dallas-Area Web Business

11 Broadway is one and half blocks from the WTC. Perhaps it was a warning to get out...

That has got to be the nonsequiteur of the century: or, at least, of the week.... One event has nothing to do with the WTC attack, the other event has everything to do with it. Looks like you need sleep, bud. I know I do....

Additional questions:

Why this particular employee? Why not a general warning to all the staff?

Was the employee an Israeli Arab? Indeed, what nationality was he?

Given that Israelis died in the attack anyway, why weren't they warned too? Why this particular person at this particular company?

The thesis of some sort of Israeli conspiracy falls down without answers to these questions. In fact, upon reflection, it looks more random than anything else.

Ivan

Some of the posts were only a few hours before the planes hit the towers.

http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3b9d459b1e5b.htm

I posted a simple news article from Ha'aretz, and said that "I am speechless"?

You insinuated that Israel probably left Americans to die to gain political power. That's an extremely scummy assertion, one that fits all sorts of negative stereotypes about Jews. Did you really insinuate that? I don't know, insinuations are funny that way. Let's let the reader decide (comments in small font are mine):

What it fuels is the idea that the Israelis KNEW about it.... (from post #8)

There was a previous story, in the Jerusalem Post (I believe) that detailed a visit by Israeli intelligence officers to Washington more than a month before the attack, in which they warned Washington that some kind of vague attack on the US was being planned, but no details were given.

In this context, it seems to me that this story in Ha'aretz (if true) is a significant development (from post #15--I read this as you insinuating that the Israelis knew more than they were saying, and purposely held information back from America)

What it does imply, though, is that someone -- aside, perhaps, from the perpetrators -- knew in advance about the attack. Who is that someone? I don't know. (from post #28--I bet it was those dirty JEWS! They know everything! And they'd be willing to let Americans die to gain political power!)

the Israelis made a special trip to Washington more than a month before the attack -- then this little news item takes on added significance. The question is: what did they know? Did they tell us everything? And now this.... (from post #38)

In Post #47, Raimondo says it is "puzzling behavior" for Israelis to celebrate the attacks on the towers, automatically assuming they're Jews. Raimondo THEN says he doesn't know the ethnicity of the guys on the tower, and that it's irrelevant (post #54). Then in post #58, he goes back to automatically assuming they're Jews, because it fits his wacky conspiracy theory. Is he full of it or what???

The neocon fealty to Israel, which amounts to unconditional support, is much broader than that, encompassing everyone from Jerry Falwell to George Will.

Now you're calling Jerry Falwell a neocon because he supports Israel? You really are a loon.

Trying to get a thread pulled by filling it with your favorite poison? What a transparent tactic.

Actually, I went out of my way to get this thread resurrected after it WAS pulled, so everyone could see what you really are. WE'RE the ones who want this out in the open, you should be running back into your cave with Usama "The Jews did it" Bin Laden.

Non-Sequitor? Try reading the article:

"Displaced employees moved across the street to the headquarters of a client, the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, a Muslim charity that supporters of Israel charge raises money for Hamas and other Mideast terrorist groups."

Exactly my point.

I am absolutely not wasting my time. First, I enjoy posting on FR, dammit.

What a gross lie. You rarely respond to your essays that are posted here by your confederates. That's why it's so much fun to see you come out from under your rock and answer people........... or at lesat try to.

I didn't actually see the responses to the thread I posted earlier (I had to leave), but I understand you two contributed to the thread. If you haven't seen this one, you should, Raimondo's bigotry is so transparent, and it's really funny to watch him try to backtrack and deny he said what he said, which anyone can see if they scroll up a few posts.

Those are 99% sure Jewish Israelis.

Looks like you need sleep, bud. I know I do....

Don't worry, this thread should still be up tomorrow.

Israeli citizens celebrating the death of 6000-plus Americans -- that's okay with you? Fine.

Did at least some Israelis know about the attack in advance? It may be a "scummy" theory, as you put it -- and it may be true. We don't know -- yet. But lots of things in life are scummy: Jonathan Pollard comes immediately to mind. So does the sinking of the USS Liberty. Scummy -- but true.

I have nothing to hide, and nothing to retract: the harpy-like shrieks of what appears to be an organized effort to smear me speak for themselves. Let this thread stand as a monument to your fanaticism and ill-concealed hatred of anything that contradicts the party line.

Amen, brother....

Israeli citizens celebrating the death of 6000-plus Americans -- that's okay with you? Fine.

When you say Israeli citizens, you should point out that they might be Jews or they might be "Palestinian" Muslims who used to live in Israel proper. There is an important distinction. Remember, Israel allows non-Jews to be citizens, because they are the most diverse and tolerant country in the Middle East. I don't think it's OK to have illegal immigrants celebrating the deaths of Americans. I don't think it's OK for you to insinuate they're Jews in order to advance your conspiracy theory. Calling them "Israelis" to try to trick people into thinking they're Jews--that's really, really low.

Did at least some Israelis know about the attack in advance? It may be a "scummy" theory, as you put it -- and it may be true. We don't know -- yet. But lots of things in life are scummy: Jonathan Pollard comes immediately to mind. So does the sinking of the USS Liberty. Scummy -- but true.

Have you ever heard the story about "The boy who cried USS Liberty?"

You can only cite that example so many times before people get tired of hearing baseless accusation after baseless accusation.

And funny you should bring up Pollard.

He's rotting in an AMERICAN jail because he shared intelligence with Israel (about terrorism, which we PROMISED to share with Israel, and then didn't). In other words, the US was doing exactly what you claim Israel might be doing, and you don't see any hypocrisy in your attacking him?

I have nothing to hide, and nothing to retract: the harpy-like shrieks of what appears to be an organized effort to smear me speak for themselves. Let this thread stand as a monument to your fanaticism and ill-concealed hatred of anything that contradicts the party line.

I'll say it once again: you're paranoid. I don't even have an organized sock drawer, let alone the secret passwords to get marching orders from the CFR and the Clandestine Luciferian Masons.

re #92--You seem to want to discuss only THIS article and not the other on this subject, which contradicts this one on many points (it also contradicts Yuval dror's email to you). A link was provided back in #24.

By GEORGE A. CHIDI JR., IDG NEWS SERVICE
(September 28, 2001)
The FBI is investigating whether someone with knowledge of the World Trade Center attacks sent a warning to employees of an instant messaging company two hours before terrorists crashed two commercial jetliners into the New York landmark, an Odigo Inc. executive confirmed today.

Odigo is working with the FBI to identify the sender of a message to two recipients in the company's international sales office and research-and-development office in Herzliya, Israel, Alex Diamandis, the company's vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed in an e-mail.

The message was a nonspecific threat that didn't mention the World Trade Center, Diamandis said. "It was the timing that made it unusual."

Now this is quite different from Mr. Dror's claims that "the content was simple: in a few hours the twin towers are about to explode". Did Dror see the message? No. Did VP Diamandis say it was a nonspecific threat that did not mention the Towers at all? Yes.

Now:
2. one of the worker was located New York the other in Israel.

Also contradicted by Mr. Diamandis, who says both messages were received at the Herzliya office.

Think about it--"Two hours before the attack" would have been 6:45 a.m. in New York. That's kind of early. If I were going to send a "warning" via instant message, I would not assume anyone would be at their desk at that time of day.

The article continues:

Heightened awareness of danger immediately after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks prompted the Israeli staff to comb through server logs for the IP address of the sender.

They passed the information on to Israeli security services, which then passed it on to the FBI. Diamandis wouldn't reveal details of the address or the message, citing the ongoing investigation.

But we are supposed to believe that the CEO of the same company DID reveal the details Mr. Dror has written about.

Now, your last question to Mr. Dror:

> > > > > > 4) Did you personally interview Odigo's CEO, cited > > in > > > the article, and can you personally vouch for the > > > authenticity of this story?

4. I cant give you an honesty certification for Mr. Mekover. I can say that Odigo is a serious company and I cant imagine Mr. Mekover making up an entire story about FBI agents, meetings, phone calls and giving IP addresses and other private information about his users, unless it was true. Also, I might add that Mr. Mekover himself said: "we get a lot of this messages from people who wants to get attention. maybe one of them made a joke and after 2 hours saw his joke comes true. it doesnt mean that he is the terrorist". hope I helped. Yuval. > > >

NOWHERE does he say he actually spoke to the CEO (whose name he has mispelled either in his article or his email). So his response is in no way an answer to the specific question you asked. Doesn't that bother you?

Allah Akubar Raimondo

We've distracted Sabramerican and are using his computer to say we are proud of the work you're doing. Osama says hello and recalls with fondness the kike jokes you told around the campfire.

You were right about the Americans. Any non-entity idiot can post anything on a web site and his views-no matter how absurd- can become debate material.

You can pick up your pay at the usual place.

Your friends at Al Qaeda

How do we know this is not a hoax perpetrated by the two employees? This is a strange little story that a respectable newspaper would not have published until it had investigated it more thoroughly.

There have been several "stories" circulating that imply or "analyze" that the Israelis were behind the attack. They've all looked like nonsense to me -- "four thousand Jews didn't show up for work," five others were "arrested and departed videotaping the attack," the IDF had "a soldier passing out sweets to Palestinian children" -- it's the same reactive garbage that follows any event like this. I've said from the beginning that I believe the Israelis were not involved, and from the NYT translation of a paper the FBI says it found, it looks like the terrorists thought they were muslims. They know better now.

"He is not of us, he is not of us, he is not of us!" They asked "Who, Messenger of God?" "He from whose hand and tongue his neighbor is not safe!"

These turkeys seem to fit the bill.

This "chat" story is weaker than most -- who sent the message may be of interest, who received it looks meaningless -- the choice of the sender, after all.

It's merely consistent with all the other evidence: it points to blind alleys and wild goose chases. Those convinced the Israelis are the exclusive architects of everything unholy, who say "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts," will be happy with it. "Evidence" that doesn't prove anything at all is especially favored by the ignorant.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

I am absolutely not wasting my time. First, I enjoy posting on FR, dammit. And I will not be driven out by nutball fanatics. Secondly, I get a LOT of letters of support from thinking Freepers. Remember, there are twenty lurkers (if not more) for every activer poster.

No, I have it on good authority (="I read it on the 'Net") that everyone here at Free Republic is a nutball. That's why I joined.

Who are you, anyway? I don't remember ever reading anything from you, but that is simply because I don't remember much at all. Never mind, I'll forget. And it doesn't matter.

If you're my deadliest enemy, I want to read what you write. You'll betray yourself, telegraph your punches, and give me the means to protect myself from you. If you're my most steadfast friend, I want to read what you write. If you are mistaken or in danger I want to know it, to help you. If you agree or disagree, whether you're right or wrong, I want to read what you write. It all tells me what's going on out there in nutball land on the ground.

Flame away, I live in a cold climate. I have skin just about the thickness of the earth's crust. I'd much rather say goodbye to this life and this world than stick around and watch this stuff, this sure ain't paradise so it must be hell where stuff like this can happen. Nothing anyone has said has reached me to hurt my feelings, it's all been stray shots at straw men.

Hate muslims? That sounds like a personal problem to me. Hate Jews? That, too. Hate Americans? Fine -- bite your nails in rage and perish in your anger, it's not mine. Planning a little "action" for Saturday night? Hey -- let's party, tell me all about it.

Write it. Post it. Save it to your hard drive. A week from now, read it again -- you might learn something from it. You can bet I read it with that in mind. Maybe you'll see what I learned. It could save you from a mistake -- it could save your life, if you like to live on the edge. LOL! And whether it delights you or disgusts you, it might save me.

I'm grandly annoyed that one thing I posted -- at least one, I haven't checked all my Threads -- was deleted from Free Republic. So what? That's what I'd do ... that's what I do, actually ... with something that I decide needs it. But when someone else does it to me, well ... we know how that goes.

So don't sweat the shouting, just don't let it shout you down. Water off a duck's back. Look at my situation: one writer with brigades of flamers and attackers and a few honest Freepers opposing an attack here and there.

This Thread started out wierd -- the more I see of what the article's talking about, the less there is to it. It's interesting to watch "nothing" become even less. Anti-matter comes to Free Republic.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

In tandem with the piece in the Computer News, and the odd story about the videotaping Israelis, the above news item is at least cause to investigate whether SOMEone in Israel knew more than they were telling -- without, of course, drawing any conclusions in advance.

Insufficient information to warrant pursuit. Where there is nothing to follow up to investigate, there is no point to even thinking about investigating. Possibly a valid IP address and possibly a valid time of transmission. There's nothing there.

For "investigating" your question, there is no basis other than raw suspicion and it's prejudicial. That's not the way to start an investigation.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

In fact, upon reflection, it looks more random than anything else.

In Guide to Events I say:

Second, do not imagine error or ineptitude, especially where it is the main apparent characteristic of an event. Error and ineptitude pave the way to scape-goating, an easy way to conceal the strategic decision that led to the event. Look instead at the effect of an event to see its cause: the likely cause is intent to produce that effect.

I first saw this Odigo report from the Washington Post, it arrived on one of my mailing lists with a link. I started to post it to Free Republic and then saw it was one of the two sources we can't post. I've seen it several times since then, it is being pushed in several vectors along lines of peripheral interest -- chat interest, hacking interest, political interest, neoNazi interest, the whole spectrum.

Here at Free Republic it has engendered some vituperative cross-accusation, among other things. Rather short on actual substance, it has taken on a life of its own by virtue, basically, of its ambiguity.

LOL! "Follow what is certain and what is obscure, leave to those for whom it is clear." What's clear here is that something points to a particular IP address and a particular time. Why is singularly obscure.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.

123 Posted on 09/30/2001 00:50:51 PDT by laconas
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124 Posted on 09/30/2001 01:01:54 PDT by The KG9 Kid
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125 Posted on 09/30/2001 01:05:02 PDT by xm177e2
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126 Posted on 09/30/2001 01:05:47 PDT by xm177e2
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127 Posted on 09/30/2001 01:08:53 PDT by xm177e2
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128 Posted on 09/30/2001 09:52:23 PDT by Justin Raimondo
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129 Posted on 09/30/2001 10:09:18 PDT by Inyokern
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130 Posted on 09/30/2001 10:11:51 PDT by denydenydeny
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131 Posted on 09/30/2001 10:16:01 PDT by Inyokern
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134 Posted on 09/30/2001 20:23:48 PDT by xm177e2
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135 Posted on 10/01/2001 13:14:04 PDT by monkeyshine
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136 Posted on 10/01/2001 13:23:17 PDT by monkeyshine
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137 Posted on 10/01/2001 13:25:42 PDT by TKEman
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139 Posted on 10/01/2001 20:51:05 PDT by FReethesheeples
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140 Posted on 10/01/2001 21:01:02 PDT by xm177e2
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141 Posted on 10/01/2001 21:07:57 PDT by Concentrate
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142 Posted on 10/01/2001 21:15:04 PDT by Concentrate
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143 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:43:18 PDT by Concentrate
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144 Posted on 10/04/2001 09:09:45 PDT by DonQ
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145 Posted on 10/04/2001 09:40:02 PDT by DonQ
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146 Posted on 10/07/2001 17:29:14 PDT by CWOJackson
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