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The Muslim Voice: American Muslims "Think Being American Means Voting Republican"

Philosophy Editorial Keywords: AMERICAN MUSLIMS ARE COSNERVATIVES,58-70% VOTED REPUBLICAN IN 2000!,CULTURALCONSERVATIVES,78%PROLIFE
Source: Dr. Deal Hudson, Editor Crisis Magazine, America's Fastest Growint Catholic Magazine
Published: 9/8/01 Author: Deal Hudson, Ph.D., Editor & Publisher,Crisis Magazine (Conserv.Cathlic Mag.of Church,Politics,C
Posted on 10/01/2001 21:57:14 PDT by FReethesheeples

The Muslim Voice

9/8/01

Muslims, I am told, believe they have a natural affinity with religiously active Catholics, from a concern for traditional values and the defense of the family to the positive role that religion can play in public life.

G o down the list of pertinent issues on marriage, family values, and the defense of life — 78 percent of Muslims are pro-life — and you begin to wonder with all they have in common with other religious conservatives, including Catholics and evangelicals, why the Muslim viewpoint gets so little attention.

At a recent briefing at the Islamic Institute in Washington D.C., I was told that Muslim activists observed closely how lay Catholics were organized in helping elect President Bush — they, too, want to organize as a political and cultural force. With six million Muslims in the United States and a very high degree of education, wealth, and political participation (i.e., voting), Muslim leaders think the time has come for their perspective to be heard.

Catholics leaders, notably Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore and Cardinal George of Chicago, already have a strong track record of meeting with Muslims and exploring areas of possible collaboration. Evangelical leaders have lagged behind in this respect.

Khaled Saffuri, President of the Islamic Institute, expressed his frustration at constantly being seen through the stereotypes of the Muslim terrorist or the enemy of Christianity. He explained that Muslims are in a very similar situation to that of Catholics in the mid-nineteenth century, who were seen as Catholics first and Americans second. “We are trying to understand what it means to be Muslim Americans.”

Thus far, Muslims evidently think being an American means voting Republican. In the 2000 election Muslims voted Bush/Cheney between 58 percent to 70 percent depending on whose poll you believe. According to the Tampa Bay Islamic Center, Bush got 88 percent of the Florida tally, or 55,000 Muslim votes. In Michigan, out of 168,000 Muslim voters, 84 percent went for Bush.

Grover Norquist, the well-known conservative organizer and activist, describes the Muslim community as “natural conservatives.” The stereotypes of terrorists and anti-Christian are ridiculous, he says, since only one out of six Muslims are of Arab descent, and, of the three million Arab-Americans, two thirds are Christian.

It is also a mistake, according to Norquist, to consider them a drain on the U.S. economy: “Muslims immigrants don’t walk across the border penniless — they fly into airports, largely to attend American universities.”

No doubt their wealth may make it possible for some sort of Muslim Coalition to emerge along the lines of the Christian Coalition.

Muslim fundraising prowess was recently demonstrated by the short length of time it took for two million dollars to be raised for an upcoming PBS film on the life of Mohammed.

The Muslim leaders gathered at the Islamic Institute are ready to move forward but don’t yet know what form their grassroots initiative will take or how closely it will be tied to a political party. But you can bet that both Democrats and Republicans will be paying attention. A Muslim magazine called Islamic Horizons already exists with 100,000 readers, which provides a ready-made base for action.

A famous political organizer told me that once you have 100,000 members of a grassroots organization you are the “force the political parties have to contend with.” I would guess the Muslims I met with this week are on the verge of just such a breakthrough.

(Editor's Note: Catholic Exchange has a current user base of over 100,000 monthly viewers.)

(Deal Hudson is editor and publisher of CRISIS, America's fastest growing Catholic magazine. He is also an advisor to President Bush. (On the Catholic Vote.) You can reach Deal at hudson@crisismagazine.com.)



Heads up, Freepers.

This is why, with 6 million American Muslims, we should cool our tendency toward knee-jerk prejudice.

There are about 5,000 psychotic killer Radical Muslims world-wide and about 1 billion, plus, who aren't!


1 Posted on 10/01/2001 21:57:14 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

2 Posted on 10/01/2001 21:58:37 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

3 Posted on 10/01/2001 21:58:38 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

4 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:00:22 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

5 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:00:23 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

6 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:01:09 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

7 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:01:09 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

8 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:01:54 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

9 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:01:54 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

This article fails to mention that Grover Norquist has been all over the media since September 11th, defending muslims because he has a very big Islamic client he wants to keep.

10 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:02:15 PDT by Deb
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To: FReethesheeples

If this were true Bush would of sweeped MI since it has the
largest population of muslems.. He didn't !

11 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:02:57 PDT by america-rules
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To: ALL Freepers: URGENT!

Heads up, Freepers!

12 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:03:13 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

Interesting lines of collaboration and percentages, Hmmmmmm.

13 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:04:48 PDT by Salvation
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To: america-rules

If you had actually READ the article, pardner, you'd realize that the Muslim vote in MI went overwhelmingly (!) for Bush!

It was the AFL-CIO's massive grassroots GetOutTheVote campaing that lost MI for Bush & defeated Sen. Spencer Abraham, to boot!


14 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:06:04 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: america-rules

If you had actually READ the article, pardner, you'd realize that the Muslim vote in MI went overwhelmingly (!) for Bush!

It was the AFL-CIO's massive grassroots GetOutTheVote campaing that lost MI for Bush & defeated Sen. Spencer Abraham, to boot!


15 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:06:04 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

This is why, with 6 million American Muslims, we should cool our tendency toward knee-jerk prejudice.

Yes, we should punish only the guilty.

There are about 5,000 psychotic killer Radical Muslims world-wide and about 1 billion, plus, who aren't!

That is perhaps true if you are talking about the currently frothing-at-the-mouth , ready-for-"martyr"-murder, terrorist. But there are far more than 5,000 potential terrorists and/or supporters of terrorism throughout the Muslim world. What about those 10,000 in Karachi burning our President in effigy? There is a huge problem in the Muslim world and Muslims need to be first and foremost in the fight against terror. It is as Bush suggests a choice: you are for civilization or against it.


16 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:08:09 PDT by EaglesUpForever
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To: Deb

Grover Norquist is the one of the best Republican/Censervative/Lebertarian UNIFIERS in the Unitied States today.

How dare you slander him.

He's a soldier in the WAR.

you are an armchair critic.

He's a very good fiend of mine, Db.

You have really pissed me off.


17 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:08:40 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: EaglesUpForever

You're completely ignorant of where I'm coming from.

you have slandered my patriotism & I'll go right down your throat for that!

I hafve worked several thaousand hours for Bush & was on the front lines at everyu step.

Were you?


18 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:11:06 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: EaglesUpForever

I think I may have over-reacted to your comments. Please forgive me.

(Running a fever, literally.)


19 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:13:29 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

You have really pissed me off.

Ease up boy. And you don't get respect from us by bumping your own post over, and over, and over.


20 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:14:05 PDT by SkyPilot
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To: FReethesheeples

If this is true I would not find it surprising. Most immigrants from that part of the world are proffesionals or business owners who would naturally tend to be conservative. They have also come from areas of high government intrusion and would likely favor less government intrusion.

21 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:14:44 PDT by wirestripper
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To: Salvation

Yes.

Going against all American Muslims is a completely counterproductive and disastrous couirse of action.


22 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:15:06 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

I wonder how Lieberman on the Democratic ticket affected Muslim voting? How did Clinton do with Muslims in '96?

23 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:15:13 PDT by Truthsayer20
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To: FReethesheeples

The article is a sham. 84% of all Muslims didn't vote for Bush in MI. The black Muslims made up at least the number of voters the article says the number of Muslims voted for Bush. Now, it may be Arab Muslims voted 84% for Mr. bush not 84% of all Muslims, I would go along with that. I bet 50% of the Blacks in Detroit are Muslims in some form or another and I doubt they went for Bush over 15% !

24 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:15:52 PDT by america-rules
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To: SkyPilot

Only in times of war, Sky.

;)


25 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:15:53 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: america-rules

These are the Bush campaign internals, I thingk, since Deal was Bush's key Catholic vote advisor in 2000, and remains a key Bush advisor.

Deal's a dear friend of mine & would not lie, a-r.

You may be right about the black-vs-arab Muslim vote, being bi-modal, but we might BOTH be surprised!

FReegards,


26 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:18:41 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20

Good point.

Lieberman's presence on the Dem. ticket might have been a material element in the overwhelming majority of even black (?)Muslim voters going for Bush.


27 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:20:23 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: wirestripper

VEry astute point at # 21, wire.

28 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:21:33 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20

Don't know how the Clin-tooon did in '96 with Muslims.

29 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:23:00 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: america-rules

No, I don't think the Bush got much of the Blk. Muslim vote. Do you think the kissyface stuff between Hilary and the Palistinian might have had something to do with pandering for the Muslim vote? I do.

30 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:24:02 PDT by wirestripper
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To: FReethesheeples

"American Muslims represent an important and growing voting block that is very sensitive to treatment received at the hands of politicians. In 1996, they voted two-to-one for Bill Clinton; in 2000, they flipped to eight-to-one for Bush."

http://www.conservative.org/columnists/houston02132001.htm


31 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:26:52 PDT by Truthsayer20
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To: EaglesUpForever

BTW, I completely AGREE with your statement that Moslems

"need to be first & foremost in the fight against terror" &

that they have an internal problem of considerable complexity,

with violent fundamentalist radicals in both the Shiite & Sunni braches of Islam:

"Are you for civilization or against it?"


32 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:27:18 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: america-rules

Oh really! What is the % of musl"e"ms in Michigan compared to the total population of Michigan?

33 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:28:20 PDT by doc
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To: Truthsayer20

EXACTLY.

A voaltile & senisitive voting bloc.

Even more of a swing bloc than Catholics, which, trditionally, determine who is elected President.

No Prsident in recent years has won teh Presidency without the catholic vote.

Its votlatile:

FDR, Eisenhower(52,56), JFK, Johnson(64), Nixon(68,72), Carter(76), REagan(80,84),Bush(88), Clinton(92,96), each respectively got the Catholic vote majority & won the presidency.

GW Bush may have had up to 1% less of the Catholic vote (or less) tha Al Gore, nationwide,

but he had something like 13% MORE of the Catholic vote than Dole got in 96.


34 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:33:27 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: doc

Good question @ #33, doc.

35 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:34:15 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: wirestripper

Well, but Hillary wasn't running in Michigan in 2000, was she?

36 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:35:10 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20

EXCELLENT research, Truthsayer20.

37 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:35:54 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: america-rules

Are Bush campaign internals "a sham" as you assert @ #24, a-r?

38 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:37:53 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: SkyPilot

I appreciate your humor & perspective.

However, FYI, while I don't care about "respect" (the state of enhancing my ego is not a goal here), I DO care, intensely, about "visibility" of this potentially profoundly important issue.

IMHO, this is a very important political issue, which could affect the next two campaign cycles.... and beyond.


39 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:43:07 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: SkyPilot

I appreciate your humor & perspective.

However, FYI, while I don't care about "respect" (the state of enhancing my ego is not a goal here), I DO care, intensely, about "visibility" of this potentially profoundly important issue.

IMHO, this is a very important political issue, which could affect the next two campaign cycles.... and beyond.


40 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:43:08 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20

BTW, thanks for the highly relevant LINK to ACU's commentary on the growing Muslim voting bloc @ #31, above.

41 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:44:50 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

No, they are polling Arab Muslims. Black Muslims make up a hugh % of the total Muslim population. We've been hearing for the last three weeks now about Muslim this and Muslim that but they're not really Muslim this and that. They are Arab Muslims they're talking about and there is a big difference. I thing there are 80,000,000 non Arab Muslims in India, 50 million non Arab Muslims in the former USSR states, several million Black American Muslims in the USA and on and on.

I'm not disputing the articles conclusions just the way they presented the data !


42 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:44:53 PDT by america-rules
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To: Deb

Deb, We haven't been cross-wise before.

Please accept my apologies,

but heed my statement re:

Norquist not going for merely a single client,

but being a "unifier".

Have you been to his Wed. morning meetings in D.C.?

Everyone is there!

(On the other hand, with all due respect, the statement about an "important client" did strike me as a bit petty & jealous in tone.

I think Grover Norquist has hundreds of important clients, including the entire conservative-libertarian movement, the entire center-right coalition, the "Leave Us Alone" coalition.)


43 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:51:15 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: america-rules

About 4-6 million American Muslims & the fastest growing single religion I am told in America.

More Muslims than Episcopalians in America.


44 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:53:41 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

I'm just quoting Brit Hume and Fred Barnes.

And I attend the David Horowitz Wednesday Morning Club lunches in Beverly Hills.

I agree with the article, though, (non-terrorist) Muslims are a natural for the GOP.


45 Posted on 10/01/2001 22:55:00 PDT by Deb
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To: america-rules

Maybe, a-r, even plausibly.

But doc asked you for real figures, above.

I'll have to go with the one's in thearticle, in the absence of others.

For further strong relevant data, See the Link, above to the ACU website on the Muslim vote in America, picked up by Truthsayer20, I believe.


46 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:00:30 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Deb

Oh, Brit & Fred.

It sounded like inside baseball, all right.

David Horowitz is a buddy & a very brave soldier in the war, don't you think?

Cheers!

(Again, sorry, I really was running a fever & it is much too late here.)


47 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:02:51 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Deb

P.S. (By coincidence, last time I ws in a room with David Horowitz (except at the airport, later) was at the Restoration Weekend & Grover was in the same room, which was on Labor Day morning in Colo. Springs. Small world.)

48 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:07:11 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20, america-rules,EaglesUpForever,Deb,doc,Bryan,SkyPilot,wirestripper,Salvation

Thank each of you for your cotributions!

Good night! (Bump)


49 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:24:11 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20, america-rules,EaglesUpForever,Deb,doc,Bryan,SkyPilot,wirestripper,Salvation

Thank each of you for your cotributions!

Good night! (Bump)


50 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:24:19 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Truthsayer20, america-rules,EaglesUpForever,Deb,doc,Bryan,SkyPilot,wirestripper,Salvation

Thank each of you for your cotributions!

Good night!

FReegards,


51 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:25:46 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

bump

52 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:26:26 PDT by Britton J Wingfield
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To: FReethesheeples

Yes, I think you over-reacted. I had zero intent to slander your patriotism, you're obviously patriotic.

I simply agree with Bush completely at this point, his speech was the greatest reassurance I've had since the tragedy on 9/11: he stated quite clearly this is not against a religion or against a culture: it is against terrorism, which as you say is represented by a small minority of people.

The challenge is huge, though, as radical fundamentalists are something like Leninists were back in the early Soviet days: the non-fanatical masses aren't necessarily out there rallying for moderation or armed ready to defend themselves. A radical few can cause a great deal of damage.

I wish to make it clear I meant no offense to you or to Muslims.


53 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:26:38 PDT by EaglesUpForever
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To: FReethesheeples,ankaboot

Five thousand may be millions low, but I take your point.

54 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:30:44 PDT by Travis McGee
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To: america-rules

Detroit - 5% of the entire city voted for Bush. Bush had more votes in Dearborn than the entire city of Detroit.

55 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:44:24 PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan

Detroit - 5% of the entire city voted for Bush

FRAUD!!!! Pure and simple FRAUD!!! Similar results in most of the major Unionized cities in the US.

Dole received more votes 4 years earlier in a 3 way race. Now is that logical? Fraud in our country is a MAJOR issue.


56 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:50:18 PDT by Gracey
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To: Britton J Wingfield

Thanks for the bump.

57 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:50:38 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: EaglesUpForever

There is a huge problem in the Muslim world and Muslims need to be first and foremost in the fight against terror.

I agree. Please send me three thermonuclear weapons with delivery systems and I'll take care of it.

Or for that matter, send the world's muslims good old M-1 shotguns instead of sending their tyrannical rulers helicopter gunships, and they'll take care of it.

Better make that seven thermonuclear weapons.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.


58 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:55:59 PDT by ankaboot
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To: EaglesUpForever

Yes, at #32 I had finally calmed down (or the double tylenol was working! & I wasn't burning up with fever).

Honestly, I don't know what got into me.

I do sincerely apologize!

I completely (COMPLETELY!) agreed with your point once I really read your post, as my post 32 finally indicated.

Well put & very thoughtful contribution.

Please forgive me for completely misconstruing it upon first read.

Again, ou had VERY wise & prudent observations, with which I completely agree.

FReegards,


59 Posted on 10/01/2001 23:59:23 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ankaboot

Very astute, if somewhat cryptic, comments:

Carefully targeted "tactical" nukes may very well be the preferred weapons of choice for some locations & situations.

Good luck in the war & our common cause (I presume) against oppressive terrorists & cruel tyrants.


60 Posted on 10/02/2001 00:05:15 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Gracey

You are almost certainly correct about voter fraud being a significant (or THE significant) element in Detroit in 2000, as well as in several other major cities throughout the Nation!

Good point!


61 Posted on 10/02/2001 00:07:41 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Dan from Michigan

Thanks for your information, Dan!

62 Posted on 10/02/2001 00:08:30 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Travis McGee

Well, the really psychotic pychopathic suicidal killers probably don't number more than 1,000 to 5,000, max., worldwide, lets hope.

There are plenty of fanatics in ANY religioon or any ideology; such could number in the millions,

but still the Muslims number in the Hundreds of millions worldwide

& the moderate Muslims are said to be the primary victims, until 9/11/01, at least,

of the Radical extremist ersatz-(pseudo)-Muslims.


63 Posted on 10/02/2001 00:13:32 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Deb

...though, (non-terrorist) Muslims are a natural for the GOP.

Except there's this simple matter of James Zogby. Ever look over his web site? After 9-11 he had an "instruction" sheet for Arabs stating What to do if the FBI comes knocking on your door. His response "You don't have to talk to the FBI," something about their "rights." What a piece of turd.

After e-mailing him about his "anti-American" attitude, shortly after I noticed his "instructions" were gone.


64 Posted on 10/02/2001 01:19:35 PDT by Gracey
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To: FReethesheeples

Good point! Now I wish we could get the Repubbies off their derriere's and do something about it before the next election.

65 Posted on 10/02/2001 01:21:35 PDT by Gracey
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To: Gracey

Mind-blowingly disappointing about James Zogby's web site @ # 64.

He's polster John Zogby's brother.

Didn't he (James Zogby) work for the Gore campaign in 2000?


66 Posted on 10/02/2001 07:52:43 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Gracey

Good for you Gracey for e-mailing James Zogby!

He must have heard from a few folks, I would hope!

Kudos!


67 Posted on 10/02/2001 07:54:52 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Gracey

Thanks for comments at # 65.

68 Posted on 10/02/2001 07:55:30 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Gracey

I agree with you re: Vote Fraud.

The night before the 2000 election, I ws on a 200+ person RNC telephone conference call & got to ask the first queston (plus one more later about Florida!):

The question was:

"What are we doing about Voter Fraud?"

I was told the GOP/RNC/Bush campaign had some lawyers on call & on duty in every state, but were woefully under-prepared for the massive Democrat Vote Fraud which occurred Nationwide!


69 Posted on 10/02/2001 08:00:40 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Gracey

I agree with you re: Vote Fraud.

The night before the 2000 election, I ws on a 200+ person RNC telephone conference call & got to ask the first queston (plus one more later about Florida!):

The question was:

"What are we doing about Voter Fraud?"

I was told the GOP/RNC/Bush campaign had some lawyers on call & on duty in every state, but were woefully under-prepared for the massive Democrat Vote Fraud which occurred Nationwide!


70 Posted on 10/02/2001 08:00:50 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

Go down the list of pertinent issues on marriage, family values, and the defense of life...

Last time I checked, Catholics were only allowed one wife at a time, not four.


71 Posted on 10/02/2001 08:09:33 PDT by 6323cd
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To: 6323cd

Muslims are only allowed up to four in some Muslim countries, certainly not the United States.

;^)

Of course, there was a landmark U.S. Sup. Ct. case in the 1890s, I think, that outlawed polygamy in Utah, of confirmed the State's right to do so over the objections of Moromon religious teachings & practices at the time...


72 Posted on 10/02/2001 08:28:46 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

You got it right, and he did more than work. IMO, he funneled a lot of money from Arab countries for the Gore campaign. He would redistribute the money in small amounts and donate in other people's names. Plus his mother has some insulting things to say about Ken Starr - same web site.

73 Posted on 10/02/2001 09:01:21 PDT by Gracey
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To: FReethesheeples

This is why, with 6 million American Muslims, we should cool our tendency toward knee-jerk prejudice.

Among the vast majority of Repulicans there has been very little "knee jerk prejudice" and a whole lot of wisely-reasoned discretion.

On the other hand, there has been a whole of knee-jerk prejudice fobbed off as tolerence that seeks to label as a "bigot" anyone who uses reasoned discretion.

You may know someone who fits the latter category of knee-jerkers.


74 Posted on 10/02/2001 09:06:38 PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: FReethesheeples

James Zogby's site is www.aaiusa.org

75 Posted on 10/02/2001 09:07:04 PDT by Gracey
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To: FReethesheeples

It's an interesting article.

I've been thinking recently that the average conservative Catholic or Christian Evangelical in this country might have more in common with a practicing Muslim than with our jet-setting, hyper-rationalist, materialist.

The cult of Davos has hijacked many of the core institutions of Western culture, and I'm convinced that this is the face the Islamic world sees when they look at us. It is, after all, the face of our popular culture (which is broadcast around the world) and of our economic aristocracy, who seek to re-order geopolitical reality as a system of interlocking and overlapping free trade zones. Religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is an obstacle to them.


76 Posted on 10/02/2001 09:10:19 PDT by cicero's_son
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To: cicero's_son

should have read: "..jet-setting, hyper rationalist, materialist elites."

sorry for the typo


77 Posted on 10/02/2001 09:13:13 PDT by cicero's_son
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To: 6323cd

Last time I check, Catholics believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. A particularly important difference and distinction between Muslims and Catholics and how both sides line up, IMHO. V's wife.

78 Posted on 10/02/2001 09:14:31 PDT by ventana
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To: ventana

Right on.

79 Posted on 10/02/2001 10:27:53 PDT by 6323cd
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To: cicero's_son

The cult of Davos has hijacked many of the core institutions of Western culture

Hey, you DO seem to have a handle on it.

Here's a recent repost of an old piece on that very subject, originally posted here in the first few months of FR's existence. The idea was to warn before it was too late. Things are changing fast now though, and it almost seems a warning is inadaquate. Rather more like a time to hunker down and at best, document the next wave.

IMHO, they're threatening to pull out all the stops, and are boasting all-or-nothing. Even the formerly smug, high postitioned henchmen for the 'cult' turned pale with trembling lip on public TV right after 911. They seem to be calming down now. I'm still trying to get a handle on the changes.


80 Posted on 10/02/2001 11:01:41 PDT by Coyote
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To: 6323cd

Please to here to see a lengthy explanation of the heresy of Mohammedesm (sp?) by the renowned Hillaire Belloc. Askel had referenced it on a many days ago thread and excerpted it. I went back and found the full article. Least I think she excerpted it. Anyway, talk about historically illuminating! And I am not referencing it to flame any protestant friends, merely I am doing so because it is such an eyeopener (the flame being inferred because it talks of other heresies such as protestantism as viewed by the church). Anyway long but worthwhile read : V's wife.

81 Posted on 10/02/2001 11:15:19 PDT by ventana
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To: cicero's_son

The cult of Davos has hijacked many of the core institutions of Western culture, and I'm convinced that this is the face the Islamic world sees when they look at us. It is, after all, the face of our popular culture (which is broadcast around the world) and of our economic aristocracy, who seek to re-order geopolitical reality as a system of interlocking and overlapping free trade zones. Religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is an obstacle to them.

You may very well be correct. That's one of the reasons that I would prefer to see military action taken against only those who can be specifically identified as responsible.


82 Posted on 10/02/2001 11:20:21 PDT by independentmind
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To: ventana

Sorry, what a garbled reply. Not real good on linking skills but try reading this. Hope it works! (Hillaire Belloc)

83 Posted on 10/02/2001 11:46:19 PDT by ventana
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To: Coyote

What scares me, Coyote, is that the Davos cult cannot really fend for itself militarily. As much success as it has enjoyed in the last 10-15 years on the economic and political fronts, there are some obstacles that can be removed only by armed force. Is Islam one of them? If so, to whom would they turn to do the actual fighting?

It will be interesting to see what the elites do in the coming months and years. I expect that they will essentially "disappear" into the background of Western civilization and, for a time at least, attune their voices to the more populist and nationalist chords that still resonate with the people. No more Durban conferences for awhile, I'm guessing.

Then again, I may be completely wrong about all of this. And even if I'm right, I think the Davos people are destined to fail. Their project is just too big, and too at odds with human nature. Even if they eradicate Islam (along with other fundamentalisms) and carry the gospel of Free Trade into the Middle East and central asia, there will still be civilizational tension. And even if they quell civilizational tension, there will still always be the conflict between the material and the transcendent in the hearts of men.


84 Posted on 10/02/2001 11:56:31 PDT by cicero's_son
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To: cicero's_son

Interesting perspective re: Cult of Davos.

As one who has feet in both worlds, the religious & the elitst world, I would submit that in reality the Cult of Davos is not consciously part of 99.9% of the "elite's" reality, except, perhaps, as an unconscious metaphor.


85 Posted on 10/02/2001 13:56:44 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: ventana

Thanks for the interesting link to Hillaire Belloc.

BTW, have you read his (Belloc's) "Characters of the Reformation"?

While I don't entirely agree with all of his theses, it is a real "tour de force."


86 Posted on 10/02/2001 13:59:49 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Coyote

Thanks for the link to our earlier post.

Food for thought.


87 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:02:59 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

I'll bet the terrorist were registered democrats....

88 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:05:31 PDT by KSCITYBOY
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To: 6323cd

Yes, and some Christians believe in Trans-substantiation & others believe in Cons-subtantiation and others believe in neither, etc...Jews don't belive in the Divinity of Jesus Christ & have the Sabbath from Fri. eve. to Sundown Saturday, whreas most Crhistians, except 7th Day Adventists, (& Jehovah's Witnesses?), observe Sunday as the Sabbath; some Buddhists are theists, others are atheists, etc.

89 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:08:12 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: KSCITYBOY

Yours is a reasonable assumption that the "terrorists were registered Democrats," since Hillary & Bill pardoned & freed the Puerto Rican Terrorists & were close to the Arafats...

;^)


90 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:10:23 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Kevin Curry

Agreed woth your comments at #74:

"The vast majority of Republicans are not knee-jerkers."


91 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:12:49 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

Grover Norquist is the one of the best Republican/Censervative/Lebertarian UNIFIERS in the Unitied States today.

leave the LP clymers out when you use the word conservative.


92 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:13:05 PDT by NAMMARINE
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To: FReethesheeples

Oh, I know. Just like there is no journalistic "consiracy" per se, merely a confluence of thought and interests among 99% of reporters.

The Davos crowd (and this is by no means limited to the heavy hitters who actually make the Haj over to Switzerland every year) simply shares a common worldview: mankind is "evolving" toward a rationalist economic utopia. Certain obstaces (Islam, Christian fundamentalism, national sovereignty, racism, etc.) remain, but they can be eliminated through a combination of economic, social, and military pressure. Ultimately, the entire globe will be a giant free trade zone and the materialist good life will be had by all.


93 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:17:08 PDT by cicero's_son
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To: FReethesheeples

Muslims, I am told, believe they have a natural affinity with ....SATAN!

94 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:18:30 PDT by NAMMARINE
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To: FReethesheeples

Funny, when I turn on my TV all I see are the 1 billion peaceful Muslims burning the US flag.

95 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:19:11 PDT by Republic of Texas
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To: NAMMARINE

The "LP Clymers" are a subset of philosophical libertarians, which includes many Republicans, NAMMARINE.

;^)

Some of us belong on a continuum of conservative-libertarian, while others prefer NO LABELS.

Personally, I embrace elements of both libertarian & conservative philosophies while voting Republican as a kind of "Realpolitik" principle.


96 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:20:24 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Republic of Texas

;^)

97 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:21:08 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

Personally, I embrace elements of both libertarian

NUFF SAID.... MORON


98 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:25:12 PDT by NAMMARINE
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To: Republic of Texas

But the 5,000 (sic) flag burners are in Pakistan where they are a TINY element even there (the activists-flag-burners), NOT in the U.S.

In the U.S. the flag burners are called "Pacifists" & "Prpfessors" and "Ivy Leaguers" and "Network Anchormen" and "pundits" and "experts" and "Civil Libertarians", but NOt,generally, "Moslems."

P.S. Louis Farrakan might want to use your crowd counting skills for his next "Million Man March" where, miraculously, 50,000 men can become "a million"

--- and 5,000 persons can become "A BILLION."


99 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:27:28 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: NAMMARINE

Thank you for identifying yourself.

The Founders, as 19th Century Jeffersonsian & Madisonian Liberals are what I am talking about.


100 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:29:03 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: cicero's_son

Oh, you mean "one-worlders."

They are doomed & dying.


101 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:30:38 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: FReethesheeples

For the first time in over a hundred years, I think they are really on the run.

102 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:33:24 PDT by cicero's_son
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To: NAMMARINE

What part of the Declaration's preamble DON'T you agree with:

"the unalienable right to Life,(?)

to Liberty,

or to "the pursuit of Happiness..."?

(Formerly the "Right to Property" unlder the Lockean formualtion and in Jeffersons first four drafts of the Preamble in the National Archives.)


103 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:34:36 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: NAMMARINE

JimRob has a proscription against "personal attacks."

"MORON," seems to fit that category.

You are way OFF BASE buddy.

Such remarks could get you thrown into the brig.


104 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:36:40 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: cicero's_son

Lets hope, then.

105 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:37:34 PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: cicero's_son

>The Davos crowd (and this is by no means limited to the heavy hitters who actually make the Haj over to Switzerland every year) simply shares a common worldview: mankind is "evolving" toward a rationalist economic utopia. Certain obstaces (Islam, Christian fundamentalism, national sovereignty, racism, etc.) remain, but they can be eliminated through a combination of economic, social, and military pressure. Ultimately, the entire globe will be a giant free trade zone and the materialist good life will be had by all.

This was a good summary, and I used to believe this was right on the money (so to speak). But I've come to believe it's slightly off the mark.

I think the ultimate goal of these globalist One Worlders is to create Blue Nation World. I don't think they want to eliminate any social dynamic. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think they want social dynamics exagerated (because then they are more pronounced and easier to influence), but they want everything reduced in scale so that everything can be managed, so that _the whole globe_ will be comparable to, say, Los Angeles or New York City -- that is, utterly balkanized, utterly insular, demographically distinct packets of human resources.

If the whole world were a "a rationalist economic utopia" then there would be little real conflict and people might get seriously happy and seriously happy people just shrug off oppression. Happy people laugh at manipulation. OTO, in Blue Nation World there will be constant, engineered strife designed to keep people focused within their demographic. And, when required for whatever social purpose might arise, those strife issues can be raised up to full scale social conflict whenever needed.

The future is Blue Nation World.

Mark W.


106 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:39:38 PDT by MarkWar
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To: FReethesheeples

"There are about 5,000 psychotic killer Radical Muslims world-wide and about 1 billion, plus, who aren't!

5000 to 1,000,000,000 - So why do WE have to fight the 5000?


107 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:46:33 PDT by Bill Rice
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To: MarkWar

Perhaps. I don't know. Like I said, I don't even know if my milder dystopic vision is accurate or just paranoid.

My hunch though is that most of the people who are pushing this agenda are not evil, unless sheer banality can be considered evil. They are terribly naive about human nature and about history, and they generally think of themselves as heralding a glorious new age that everyone will like once they bring it into being.

For this reason, it's hard for me to swallow the notion that they are pusing for a sort of global Blue Zone. Make no mistake, trends toward urbanization and centralization of authority will make the Blue Zones of the world even more powerful, but I don't think they aim to blanket the entire world.

Happiness, by the way, can cut both ways. Think of Brave New World, where everyone was cheerful to such an extent that they didn't even realize they were being oppressed.


108 Posted on 10/02/2001 14:53:13 PDT by cicero's_son
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To: FReethesheeples

wishful thinking.....there are at least 5000 Muslim taxi drivers in NYC that are at least "sympathetic" to Bin Laden's designs.....you are quite naive however well intended.

109 Posted on 10/02/2001 15:33:13 PDT by wardaddy
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To: cicero's_son

I've been thinking recently that the average conservative Catholic or Christian Evangelical in this country might have more in common with a practicing Muslim than with our jet-setting, hyper-rationalist, materialist.

The cult of Davos has hijacked many of the core institutions of Western culture, and I'm convinced that this is the face the Islamic world sees when they look at us. It is, after all, the face of our popular culture (which is broadcast around the world) and of our economic aristocracy, who seek to re-order geopolitical reality as a system of interlocking and overlapping free trade zones. Religion, whether Christian or Islamic, is an obstacle to them.

Bingo!

Bump.

was-salaam,
ankaboot
--
Rejoice, muslims, in martyrdom without fighting,
a Mercy for us. Be like the better son of Adam.


110 Posted on 10/02/2001 17:14:33 PDT by ankaboot
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