Category: Private  Topic: Galt's Gulch
	Synopsis:
	Source: MA
	Published: March 12, 2004  Author: MA
	For Education and Discussion Only.  Not for Commercial Use.

The Gulch was really not an appropriate place for TC to post his "Intrusions" thread. He has given me permission to move both that thread and his Opus to the main forum.

The "Intrusions" thread will be moved to the "General Discussion" topic in the Forum Development section. This topic is visible to all LF members but not to lurkers.

The Opus will be moved to the "General Chat" topic in the Lounge.

Since the threads were started in an area where there is an expectation of privacy I wanted to give people an opportunity to comment before I move the threads. If you have an issue with me moving the thread or regarding your post(s) there, please let me know, on this thread or via PM.

UPDATE 8:44 a.m. PST: Based on the discussion in this thread so far, I have decided not to move the "Intrusions" thread to the public forum, but am considering moving it to a 'moderator only' topic so as to remove what I consider to be inappropriate content from this forum. No one but the moderators would be able to access the posts on the "Intrusions" thread if I do this. Thanks again for your assistance.

UPDATE 9:11 a.m. PST: To address the dual concerns of privacy issues and my desire not to have what I consider inappropriate content in this topic, I intend to move the "Intrusions" thread out of the Gulch, to a topic that is viewable by moderators only. The thread will be moved at approximately 12:00 p.m. on Saturday, March 13, 2004. Please retrieve any data you wish to retain before that time. Thanks.

UPDATE 3:00 p.m. PST: The disposition of the "Intrusions" thread is once again up in the air. Options are to move it either to General Discussion in the forum development topic, or to the Holding tank area which is only accessible by moderators. I'll leave the thread where it is for now, with the expectation that the discussion will be finished and a decision made by noon on Monday March 15. Ides of March, that should be appropriate or something. Thanks.

FINAL DISPOSITION March 15 9:45 a.m. I have decided to go ahead and leave the threads here so that Gulch members can view them if they choose. I have locked the threads. Thanks to all who contributed comments and suggestions regarding this unfortunate matter.
~MA

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fyi

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fyi

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Flag to: Reichsritter, Richard_A_Garner, riggo, RobertDrake, sargon, sendtoscott, SonOfLiberty, sourcery, Sparta, Spooner_Fan, SteamshipTime, steve50, StormOrphan, Sunni, Swampfox, Tejano, texoma

fyi

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Flag to: themalcontent, The_Expatriate, The_Green_Goblin, thomaslknapp, Thoreau, thoughtcriminal, tkcteccfrs, Uriel, William_Tell, WindMinstrel, Xena_Foebick, Zviadist

fyi

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Since the threads were started in an area where there is an expectation of privacy I wanted to give people an opportunity to comment before I move the threads.

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Hmm. I could extend the deadline for a week or something to give people a chance to see it, but I really would like to move them. I might still be convinced otherwise.

People who chose to do so could have their posts removed or edited (if someone has replied to a deleted post the stub will remain, however). Also, I was considering editing the flag posts to remove the names of the Gulch members, in case anyone did not want their membership here to be generally known.

Would the above address your concerns?

I don't think anyone will have a problem with the opus being moved, but since that is a far shorter thread I will be able to contact its participants individually.

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What purpose would moving them serve (other than to reopen wounds)?

Let sleeping dogs lie.

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I have no issues with the Opus. That was straight forward.

All moving the other thread to the public will accomplish will be days more bitching and moaning by an awful lot of people. Honestly, since the expectation of privacy is what people posted to that thread with, I see no reason to dismiss that expectation after the fact. You know how people are around here. Something that may look harmless or innocent will be zoomed in on by some bozo and issues made out of whole cloth.

I mean, do we really want to clog the forum up again with this kind of thing, when it's not necessary in the first place?

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Quote:

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What purpose would moving them serve (other than to reopen wounds)?

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I mean, do we really want to clog the forum up again with this kind of thing, when it's not necessary in the first place?

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Do what you feel you must.

I think, however, that moving the thread out will immediately cause those who accuse "star chamber" to launch into palpitations that we're covering up more in here. And verily, they shall let loose the Dogs of Paranoia the likes of which we probably won't want to be around for.

As I said, just my opinion. Ultimately the decision is your's. If and when the personality wars start, I will probably just quietly log off and not participate. I've had enough of these paranoid kooks to give me a bellyfull for a good long while.

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Move the "Opus" post if you want, but not the thread. You'll destroy the idea of private forums if people post there with the thought that the thread may go public.

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I have no personal problem with any Gulch threads being moved but I'm not sure others would agree.

Sorry to hear TC is gone. For a guy/gal who posted some very good articles he/she sure does a lousy opus.

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That is precisely my argument as well.

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Flag to: texoma, SonOfLiberty, steve50, OWK

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You'll destroy the idea of private forums if people post there with the thought that the thread may go public.

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Flag to: MadameAxe, Texoma

I second Texoma.

Generally, there is nothing wrong with private conversations; they should be encouraged. The "Star Chamber" is just a nasty epithet without meaning, in this context.

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=== It's simply kept on the island, regardless.

I don't think this follows given (1) the opus nature of the threads and (2) the crass use of the Gulch to stage a FAB Board style coup to pressure action out of the Owner and/or stage a walkout in protest.

Those are issues directly affecting the open board and centered absolutely on actions/individuals and posts a part of the public boards.

One of the most disappointing (among many) things about this stupid string of events is the way those who protested most loudly about the Gulch's being NOTHING like the FAB Board and absolutely free of the sorts of Guilder/Zionist intrigues and power plays that plagued it almost from the beginning were precisely the pricks who pulled this stunt at the Gulch's expense.

I had my misgivings, no doubt, but having given it some thought, I think Madame's choice to move the threads is a wise one which helps repair what credibility Gulchers have lost thanks to the utterly juvenile actions of others.

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Flag to: SonOfLiberty, OWK

=== I mean, do we really want to clog the forum up again with this kind of thing, when it's not necessary in the first place?


That was my initial thought too ... but dogs are still salivating as we speak and it's best Madame Axe not only make the move but make it with the caveat to all that such threads will be summarily moved in the future if not deleted on the spot the moment they appear.

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=== You'll destroy the idea of private forums

Precisely the conceit which got so many in trouble in the first place.

The Gulch is not a moderator forum and had no business tackling this issue in the first place. I see no reason a forum devoted to the "likeminded" brainstorming over systems suitable for invoking some spontaneously ordered utopia should be abused by those who wish to use it to rabblerouse and make accusations about non-members in "private".

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Flag to: askel5, MadameAxe

The thing is, we're not debating the reason of the forum, so much as the presumptions that people who posted here were posting under. It's one thing to say that there is no expectation of privacy where none is granted explicitly, but in this case, the expectation was built into the very concept. Hence the term "private" forum. The barrier of privacy was erected, and for whatever good or ill it was used, it was not taken down during the course of the events of the last couple of days. That being said, retroactively removing the presumption of privacy is a bad idea.

It's akin to being sold a bill of goods.

I don't think MA is doing this to be mean, spiteful or hurtful. Far from it, I see her intentions as honorable and trying to right what she perceives as a wrong. But doing so by retroactively removing an understood convention we all shared would be wrong.

I think her solution of PM'ing every single person who participated on the threads in question is a good one, all said and done. That way, there's no question, and if everybody gives a thumbs up, it's a moot point.

Just to do it because you don't happen to like the nature of the forum, however, wouldn't be right if by doing so you have to renege on what is essentially a promise in order to do so.

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=== Generally, there is nothing wrong with private conversations; they should be encouraged.

How so? How is the further marginaliation of an already hopelessly marginalized group poised to further the stated objectives of Liberty Forum?

Probably because my experiences at FR not only include the FAB bs but also the pack of hyena abuse heaped upon me by OPH and and FReepmail Listserve of harpy biddies, I'm not so keen on the notion "Private" is best on internet forums devoted to accountability ... save, perhaps, where Moderator forums are concerned such that folks have the ability to sift through facts without interference.

But maybe that's just me.

I thought the only reason this forum was private was so that ideas pertaining to the purpose of this place (as well as certain personal initiatives undertaken from time to time to further the cause and invite camaraderie among "likeminded" sorts) could be hammered out by serious-minded sorts rather than spammed incessantly by Newswatcher and other mindless distractions.

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