Intruding into others personal lives offline, without their consent or say so, in order to hurt them, is such a blatant form of evil that I have no issue, if this is verified as true, with having them perma-smacked/banned.

This isn't about speech, it's about taking things too far in real life.

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They should be cast into the external darkness.

Wailing and gnashing of teeth are optional.

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Much as I hate to stand in the way of the lynch mob in full cry, and I understand that I will likely get flattened as a result of doing so, I would like to ask what particular interference you are talking about and what evidence you have for it, and what it has to do with LF?

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Well Randal, we have a situation involving Zaphod Beeblebrox's personal life being intruded to by WRS and Kudzu who have used posts of his that have appeared on LF(which he made anonymously) to contact his parents and fuck up his life.

WRS' little Stasi ip tracing game uncovered him.

The kid is scared shitless.

...and of course you know full well that this isn't the first time they've intruded into the personal lives of LF posters, as both tex and Baron Stein can testify.

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I think it is dispicable behavior. Any form of property or cooperation I have is off limits to them. Future versions of the site may provide me and like minded individuals the ability to make this stick in a very tangible and rights preserving way. Shunning requires the ability to withdraw the value of participation and this site is set up in such a way that this will never happen.

As it is, we would need a consentual dispute resolution organisation to take care of this. In fact that may be what we need to do.

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This steam-roller isn't too fast, so would you be so kind as to sit right there while we try to run you over?

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Much as I hate to stand in the way of the lynch mob in full cry, and I understand that I will likely get flattened as a result of doing so, I would like to ask what particular interference you are talking about and what evidence you have for it, and what it has to do with LF?

I have up to this time taken these accusations on faith.


Clearly they would have to be either confirmed by the principles or proven before any actions could be considered.

But if they prove true, you honestly don't see any reason for LF to act?

And you would not support any such action?

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There is no way of knowing who is or isn't collecting information on any of us. What is more irksome is finding out that someone is collecting (and using) information. There is an arrogance there, an attitude that says, "I can find out things about you, and post them here, or inform your friends/family. I can make you toe the line". Going along with it when it happens will only inflate that sense of arrogance, and may even inspire others to do the same things. And there ends "free speech", and any possible positive input from people who are naturally shy of stepping out from the herd.

And, to be honestly paranoid, who's to say that these same posters, when caught between a rock and a hard place, wouldn't provide personal information to a law enforcement agency in order to save their sorry selves?

IMHO.

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" to contact his parents and fuck up his life. "

Is there any solid evidence of this?

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I support the 'shun' as an important tool for liberty minded tribes insuring order.

They would still be free to read the forum, correct? It's hardly even an issue. Let them re-apply in three years or something.

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What would you consider "solid"?

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They're both scum of the earth and should be banned.

I disagree. You must be careful in your online persona if there is any danger to your off-line life. You cannot count on anonymity. And this poster already knew someone in "real life" from this forum.

I think people who use info from here to hurt others in "real life" are indeed very bad people. Scum, perhaps. But I don't think it is a ban-able offense, as the original poster was very very careless in his/her posting and online behavior.

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Our problem is, we don't have a well-articulated and well-propagated policy. We have the general sentiment, "no disclosure of personal info". It doesn't say what to do when the personal info has been made pulbic knowledge, nor what the consequences are.

I propose:

- No augmentation of personal info already disclosed by the subject himself.
- Banishment for one month, one year, and one life for the first, second, and subsequent offense

This is what "augmentation" means.

- If something was not diclosed by the subject publicly, it may not be disclosed publicly.
- If something was disclosed in a limited circle, it may be repeated in the same circle, but not the wider circle.

For example, if I tell you where I live when we meet face to face, you may not disclose it by any means. If I tell you where I live in PM, you can use it in PM to me, but not in PM to others or in the fora. If I disclose where I live to members fo the Gulch, it can be repeated in the Gulch, but not outside the Gulch. Finally, if I disclose where I live on general access forum, you can repeat that on that or any other general access forum.

- If something was disclosed in a particular manner, it may be repeated in the same manner, but not in a more revealing manner. For example, my IP address may be harvested by server owners, but it should not be disclosed in plain post, making that discovery easy for anyone. If I disclose my alma mater college and a part of my name, that fragmentary information may be repeated, but research that leads to a positive indentification should not be published even if anyone can google it up independently.

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Opinions were posted on this forum in the expectation that what goes on here stays here.

That was never part of the rules of this website.

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> The kid is scared shitless.


As well he should be. Who knows what the fuck WRS is capable of, now that he knows the kid's identity. Maybe he'll call the town cops next? And, even if the kid has nothing to worry about in that sense... who the fuck wants to be part of any investigation, bullshit or otherwise?

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That was never part of the rules of this website.

Prohibiting attempts to connect online identities to real people, and subsequently harrassing those people certainly was.

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I support the 'shun' as an important tool for liberty minded tribes insuring order.

I agree.

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Well Randal, we have a situation involving Zaphod Beeblebrox's personal life being intruded to by WRS and Kudzu who have used posts of his that have appeared on LF(which he made anonymously) to contact his parents and fuck up his life.

WRS' little Stasi ip tracing game uncovered him.

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Flag to: annalex, Zviadist, Randal

Regarding proof, what I propose is easy to police. If X posts something about Y, and someone complaints, X must provide a proof that that very thing was already posted by X in the same circle with the same level of clarity.

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Instead of engaging in your own personal counter-drama, why not just address the situation directly.

If the allegations prove true, are they worthy of action on the part of LF?

I'll save the question of guilt for an admission from the principles, or for some other irrefutable evidence.

My question pertains to any situation, not this specific one.

If one member of this forum uses LF to gain information, which he subsequently uses to harrass, intimidate, or maliciously meddle in the real life of another.. should the forum act against them?

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Flag to: Randal, owk, sonofliberty, steamshiptime

Zaphod switched user names with the intent of being anonymous on this forum, without anyone knowing that he was "Muslim".

WRS traced the kid's IP.

Ansar was told of this and on this forum said that he would contact his parents....

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I would say it's nothing to do with us, frankly.

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However, it appears many of the most substantial members here are quite satisfied of their guilt (or at any rate their general obnoxiousness), so why not simply post a public thread suggesting that WRS and Kudzu should be banned because you regard them as unpleasant and destructive individuals? I think it would be more honest, and it would make LF a much more respectable place, after all.

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I would say it's nothing to do with us, frankly.

I agree. One must be careful online.

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I say that allowing a climate of fear to exist on LF because of the past and present

You have a point, but if this poster knew that there were issues that could make his life miserable, perhaps he should have backed off this forum. There already was a too-close-for-comfort degree of seperation between the other poster and his father. That could be dangerous and perhaps he should have found another forum if he had issues with his father.

No?

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Acquiring the ID of online persona wishing to remain anonymous, and subsequently using that information to harrass, stalk, or otherwise intrude into the real life of LF posters, should result in the banishment of the offending parties.

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How did they find out who he was when he became Zaphod?

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