Flag to: SonOfLiberty, texoma, Randal

ok, got it. Well, if we start to ban perverts or people with way too much time on their hands, LF will be empty soon LOL!
So the fault is to LF not giving the proper protection to users' anonymity? Afterall those pictures (or the way they are managed) are like Trojan Horses able to suck your IP
in this supposedly secured forum.
I'm not blaming LF, just finding dubious the one leaving the gun at hand would be the one pretending to judge and condemn the gun user.

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Flag to: OWK, thoughtcriminal

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How did pm's from muslim prove that Z was muslim, as a matter of interest?


The connection of Z and Muslim is not alleged to have been made by PM's.

The allegation is that it was made and revealed via WRS's time-tested graphic IP sniffer technique

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It's not the gathering of information I think is the issue. The issue is using that information to nail somebody in real life, face to face, that kind of thing. That's the folcrum, IMO.

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The charges against tex were based on hysteria. This is a specific sequences of events which I have no doubt whatever happened. After all, Zaph has disappeared, you know.

To my mind, he was pretty stupid and largely brought this on himself. However. There is one specific offense in the sequence which is intolerable, without which no one would have been hurt. It is also against forum policy and is a matter of public record.

That is when WRS published the fact that Zaph and Muslim were the same person. He has outed people repeatedly and it has to stop. Remember the "Plan Daisy" brouhaha? Then there is Musa.

The only thing different this time is that someone got hurt. In my mind, despicable as their actions may have been, Kudzu and ansar did nothing against forum policy. The issue is what to do about WRS. He has to be stopped.

I think that the absolute minimum sentence is to

1. demand that he make a public apology to all three people (for that matter, what's happened to Daisy?) for outing them.
2. demand a promise that he never to post a graphic ever again. Even one, no matter from where, and he's gone. Same thing if he posts any details from someone's private life that he didn't get right on this forum. If he still wants his ugly mug as his avatar, it can be hosted on LF's server.
3. delete all rants summarily as contrary to the spirit of #1.

If he's willing to agree to this, he can stay.

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Doesn't look quite as malicious to me, having read those posts.

That was my impression. I thought perhaps I was wrong.

Still, this freak trying to get everyone's IP number by stealth is, to me, bull. I don't like it one bit. It shows bad faith.

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Management handles such cases by closing the account of the user's choice (so that only one may remain open). I doubt Zaphod would have had any problem with that whatsoever. It's not a major violation and has never been treated as such.

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They didn't rat him out--they just discovered a violation. I think its forbidden to use two different names when posting--if for some reason you have to abandon one, you gotta tell the management.

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I stand to my point. The gun is available in LF shop. The murder was done out of the shop. Is grabbing the gun vs LF rules?
How sad the case can be, the question remain does LF rule out of LF?

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I have wondered about that too. It is what Zaph told me.

Edit: I have not seen the contents of the PMs. Some may come from Zaph.

Edited by JustStopIt on 03/08/04 01:59 PM.

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So it appears the folks who knew muslim were motivated by concern that somebody was masquerading as muslim, or something else was wrong with their friend. Doesn't look quite as malicious to me, having read those posts.

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Is one of you two going to make a public announcement of your wish to ban WRS and Kudzu, or do we have to do all this in private first and then go through it all again when they can defend themselves?

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Flag to: JustStopIt, John Deere, thoughtcriminal

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That is when WRS published the fact that Zaph and Muslim were the same person. He has outed people repeatedly and it has to stop.

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I think you should get JD's opinion before putting anything on the public forum. It's his decision anyway.

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Flag to: OWK, John Deere

The spirit and the letter of LF's privacy policy was communicated directly to WRS

The game is this:

- John Deere makes a general statement regarding his desire to protect the members' privacy.

- WRS distills from it a concrete rule and follows the concrete rule. For example, if JD prohibits posting IP addresses, WRS doesn't post them any more. If JD prohibits posting identifying information, WRS posts a link to that information posted by the subject himself.

- WRS behaves is such a way that there is aviolation of the spirit but never an express rule.

- WRS complains about changing goalposts and being discriminated against.

It is up to JD to ban him or not ban him for this one; it is a personal affrontery to him, so if he bans WRS, that would be within his rights.

WRS is testing this forum. My advice is, unless explicit rules are posted in a permanent spot, the appearance of selective enforcement remains. When JD communicates the policy directly to WRS rather that makes it part of the forum framework, it reinforces the appearance.

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Sorry Randal, I'm not done canvassing libertarian opinion yet.

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So it appears the folks who knew muslim were motivated by concern that somebody was masquerading as muslim, or something else was wrong with their friend. Doesn't look quite as malicious to me, having read those posts.

I have to question your comprehension of this post...



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I'm sorry you're resorting to this... Ansar says he knows your family personally. I hope when he reads this he can persuade your parents to influence you towards more positive direction than masquerading like this. This is totally inappropriate behaviour. Allah yahdeeka wa yahdeena ajma3een.

posted by hazmat to Zbb
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WRS is testing this forum.

And fucking with people's lives in the process.

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I am not trying to harsh your karma, by the way. But I do have ban-o-phobia and am very hesitant to embrace anything that leads to that. But you may be starting to make a case for me. Especially this IP mining operation. That is not appropriate.

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I've never advocated banning before.

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Flag to: Zviadist, Mr_Nuke_Buzzcut, Randal

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How did they find out who he was when he became Zaphod?

I don't know. We only know what we have been told.

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Flag to: Zviadist, AdaC, annalex

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Doesn't look quite as malicious to me, having read those posts.

That was my impression. I thought perhaps I was wrong.

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Still, this freak trying to get everyone's IP number by stealth is, to me, bull. I don't like it one bit. It shows bad faith.

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That's the most credible allegation I've seen yet on this thread against WRS.

It's certainly the one undeniable one. All the rest is hearsay. It is hearsay which fits the known facts, however.

Although, last night when Down_South posted a PM from Zaph about the story, the perps didn't deny what they did. Instead they tried to justify it.

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I think you should get JD's opinion before putting anything on the public forum

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Flag to: OWK, Randal

fucking with people's lives

That goes to what Randal was saying previously, that it is unrelated to LF proper.

Let me ask you a general question. Let us say, a criminal plotting a real crime posts at LF and we know it. The posts themselves are following the forum rules, but they contain signals to his accomplices. Would you advocate banning him of the grounds that he, in real life, is fucking with people's lives?

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Let me ask you a general question. Let us say, a criminal plotting a real crime posts at LF and we know it. The posts themselves are following the forum rules, but they contain signals to his accomplices. Would you advocate banning him of the grounds that he, in real life, is fucking with people's lives?


You bet your ass I would.

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Neither have I. Free speech is what makes this forum what it is. Without it, you have another FR or any one of thousands of politically-minded discussion outlets.

But when one poster takes it upon himself to spy upon the other members, and use the information obtained therein to interfere in the life of a specific member, the bounds of free speech have been crossed and a rights violation has occurred. This represents a hostile environment to liberty for all posters on this forum, and I will not stand for it.

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