Flag to: JustStopIt, John Deere

a violation of the spirit, if not the letter, of LF's policy.

I humbly suggest that you need to find a way to make sure it never happens again.

The only way to do that is to articulate a simple and enforceable privacy policy, instead of acting surprised when WRS (or some of his friends in their own way) find a way to annoy the hell out of us.

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Very good point.

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WRS is not a fundamentalist. On the contrary, he is a revisionist. Musa is a fundamentalist. Zviadist is a fundamentalist. WRS is a fanatic. There is a difference.

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Correct. He probably didn't even know the rule. Nonetheless, we busybodies are always interested in multiple accounts. What name is Veronica using this week sort of thing.

WRS is a busybody.

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Flag to: annalex, AdaC

One other way would be to prevent him from collecting addresses.

Incidently, tex just took me through the logs on her blog. Scary stuff you can find that way. Picked one at random and starting looking through it. My guess is that it is our good friend, Ada. With a gif on LF, I'd know if I was right.

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Okay. And now we know for sure that they were one and the same and not roommates.

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Flag to: Earth_AD, OWK

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Irrelevant. Zaphod's personal life was none of WRS/ansar's/anybody's business but his own. Whether or not "muslim" wished to keep in contact with them was his decision and his only.

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Not if that person is an adult, capable of making his own decisions about his personal life, faith, beliefs, etc. Zaphod explicitly changed his status on Libertyforum, by his own free will, in an effort to keep WRS etc from finding out about his apostate standing. He neither needed nor desired "help" from anyone in coming about that decision.

Religion is a personal matter, Randal. Do you think that everyone's parents have a right to know the details of their adult children's personal and religious lives?

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I'm surprised at you, Randal. Do people not have the right to behave in a demonstrably irrational manner anymore? Must they be subject to the wills and wishes of their parents, or those who "care enough" about them to "set them back on the right path?"

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But I would not feel it authorized me to disregard his obvious desire for anonymity, ferret out his identity by nefarious and previously condemned means, publicly post it, and foment others to harrass his parents. Call his school, and attempt to have him kicked out.

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He simply changed his mind.

But from the standpoint of the Muslim fundamentalist, this is unacceptable.

To accept Allah, and then reject him is heresy.

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Should be ban fanatics? Is that a policy now?

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prevent him from collecting addresses

Just him, or across the board? The latter would mean an absolute ban on pictures (LF is not set to store pictures).

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Should be ban fanatics? Is that a policy now?

Those whose fanaticism compels them to presume themselves better judges of what is best for individuals than the individual does, and who proceed to pursue their fanaticism in the real world with people who post here with the expectation of anonymity... yes.

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all the while creating a climate of fear here on LF

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Flag to: Randal, earth_ad, mr_nuke_buzzcut

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Who is suffering from this "climate of fear", tc? Perhaps you ought to reassure them that provided they don't disclose their personal details to anybody they can't trust, and assuming they don't reveal it elsewhere on the web, they aren't in any real danger of being identified, least of all by ip sniffing.

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Let us understand that you are advocating an ideological condition of membership. "Are you or have you ever been one to inform one family member on another without the latter's consent?"

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Just him. He violated a clear policy in the case of Musa. And the spirit of the law in the case of Zaph. There is nothing wrong whatever with special restriction on people who violate policy.

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No. There are plenty of other fanatics on the forum. Certainly his co-conspirators are good examples. In any case, I have not called for him to be banned.

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But we are dealing not with rational choice here, but mental instability

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This is a matter of trying to help somebody

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Who is suffering from this "climate of fear", tc? Perhaps you ought to reassure them that provided they don't disclose their personal details to anybody they can't trust, and assuming they don't reveal it elsewhere on the web, they aren't in any real danger of being identified, least of all by ip sniffing.

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Tex and WRS can collect my address all you want. And if I should create another account here without first cancelling one, I can't really complain if someone outs me.

I noticed in that exchange you posted that Bbox denied he was ever muslim. The assumption is that he is not telling the truth. If so, he has excellent reason not to because the Muslim punishment for apostacy is death.

The Muslim posters here know this. If Bbox is an apostate revealing it is like telling a Muslim father that his daughter is unchaste. A very serious matter indeed.

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Flag to: Earth_AD, Randal

I doubt Zaph feels very "helped" right now by what transpired.

Nor do I think his parents do. In my family we have a "don't ask don't tell" policy on the subject of apostasy. I'm pretty sure they know I'm an atheist, but why should I throw it in their faces? Why cause dissension in the family for no reason? Instead I go to church occasionally when I visit them and they never ask why I don't when I'm not there. Works for us. The brutal way that Zaph and his parents had to confront the subject must have been awful for all of them. According to him, it was. And I believe it.

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But we are dealing not with rational choice here, but mental instability
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Says Randal. I'm not as comfortable making that assumption. First off, we don't know how "fanatical" a believer muslim/zaph was in the first place. He could have been having doubts for some time. He might have been a believer in name only and decided to stop living a lie. He's the only one who knows the answer.

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This is a matter of trying to help somebody
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That is debateable, and regardless I doubt Zaph feels very "helped" right now by what transpired.

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Edited by Randal on 03/08/04 03:40 PM.

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Good post. Very similar to my own situation. Religion is kept personal. We've never had any problem with it.

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Nor do I think his parents do. In my family we have a "don't ask don't tell" policy on the subject of apostasy. I'm pretty sure they know I'm an atheist, but why should I throw it in their faces? Why cause dissension in the family for no reason? Instead I go to church occasionally when I visit them and they never ask why I don't when I'm not there. Works for us. The brutal way that Zaph and his parents had to confront the subject must have been awful for all of them. According to him, it was. And I believe it.

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Flag to: JustStopIt, Randal, John Deere, OWK

special restriction on people who violate policy

OK, I can go along with that, -- ban WRS' pictures.

The violations of the spirit of the policy are indeniable, and posting pictures is the technical conduit of that.

I can see multitudes viewing the source of WRS' posts in search of offending IMG SRC tags...

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Flag to: Mr_Nuke_Buzzcut, Randal

Your reassurances are worthless.

This may be alas often worhtless. I know too many people freaking out because their spyware found a couple of unwanted cookies while they are totally irresponsible the way they share private details with the first person they meet.

And this case is certainly a good example how at the end you get at risk from a rather harmless IP sniffing. Insisting all the evil is in the latter doesn't help those reckless people in the future.

Beside that, I find IP sniffing VERY rude and unacceptable.

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Which is why I prefer not to have to start worrying about what LF members do and don't do in the real world.

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